Comments on: Time to ride into the sunset http://www.rcmpwatch.com/time-to-ride-into-the-sunset/ Who is keeping them accountable? Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:35:43 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: GetReal http://www.rcmpwatch.com/time-to-ride-into-the-sunset/comment-page-1/#comment-2571 GetReal Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:14:31 +0000 http://www.rcmpwatch.com/?p=1245#comment-2571 I do not condemn any organization based on difficulties they face or matters that they have erred in. ie: The RCMP made a huge mistake in slowing down and then closing their training facility, only to adhere to budget cuts engendered by the government(s) of the day. Some foresight was needed with respect to at least changing demographics and how that would affect personnel levels. The driving force behind such administrative decisions can be traced to government ideology, financial directives, human resource directives, and other initiatives taken with a political view by that government, and passed to its extremities. To advocate for a wholesale change in mandate for the RCMP, and with such advocacy, fail to realize it is the same people doing the same thing, investigation, serves short shrift to the employees of that organization. To broad brush the front lines as the only ones attempting to effect change is specious. Although the matters discussed here are primarily negative, there are plenty of examples of first class operations by the RCMP every day in the major newspapers. Hardly evidence of a "shattered organization". Mr. Lawrence does make some good points, some of which I totally agree. I do not pick up on any indication that he agrees that the whole organization is shattered and beyond repair. I interpret his remarks as there is serious work to be done in that organization, and his longevity there would add credibility to those observations. I have yet to observe perfection in any large organization. However, positive and constructive suggestions go a lot farther than negativity. My grandmother always said that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. An old homily but very true. I do not condemn any organization based on difficulties they face or matters that they have erred in. ie: The RCMP made a huge mistake in slowing down and then closing their training facility, only to adhere to budget cuts engendered by the government(s) of the day. Some foresight was needed with respect to at least changing demographics and how that would affect personnel levels. The driving force behind such administrative decisions can be traced to government ideology, financial directives, human resource directives, and other initiatives taken with a political view by that government, and passed to its extremities.

To advocate for a wholesale change in mandate for the RCMP, and with such advocacy, fail to realize it is the same people doing the same thing, investigation, serves short shrift to the employees of that organization. To broad brush the front lines as the only ones attempting to effect change is specious.

Although the matters discussed here are primarily negative, there are plenty of examples of first class operations by the RCMP every day in the major newspapers. Hardly evidence of a “shattered organization”.

Mr. Lawrence does make some good points, some of which I totally agree. I do not pick up on any indication that he agrees that the whole organization is shattered and beyond repair. I interpret his remarks as there is serious work to be done in that organization, and his longevity there would add credibility to those observations.

I have yet to observe perfection in any large organization. However, positive and constructive suggestions go a lot farther than negativity. My grandmother always said that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. An old homily but very true.

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]]> By: Calvin Lawrence http://www.rcmpwatch.com/time-to-ride-into-the-sunset/comment-page-1/#comment-2570 Calvin Lawrence Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:58:42 +0000 http://www.rcmpwatch.com/?p=1245#comment-2570 I agree that all families (organizations) are functional to a degree. There are RCMP members that are trying to uphold the core values of the organization. (Integrity, Honesty, Professionalism, Compassion, Respect, and Accountability). The problem is that when these RCMP members are constantly being subjected to abuse they burnout or leave. No one will ever live up to the core values one hundred percent of the time. No one is perfect. The members however, must strive towards that goal. The member’s actions or non-actions are compared to the core values of the organization; not to what we think or our opinions as individuals. I don’t have to sell my dysfunctional organization statement. The fact that as of 8/31/05 one in eight RCMP regular members is receiving a disability pension will sell itself. Calvin Lawrence CGL Consulting I agree that all families (organizations) are functional to a degree. There are RCMP members that are trying to uphold the core values of the organization. (Integrity, Honesty, Professionalism, Compassion, Respect, and Accountability). The problem is that when these RCMP members are constantly being subjected to abuse they burnout or leave.

No one will ever live up to the core values one hundred percent of the time. No one is perfect. The members however, must strive towards that goal. The member’s actions or non-actions are compared to the core values of the organization; not to what we think or our opinions as individuals.
I don’t have to sell my dysfunctional organization statement. The fact that as of 8/31/05 one in eight RCMP regular members is receiving a disability pension will sell itself.

Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting

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]]> By: Justbecause http://www.rcmpwatch.com/time-to-ride-into-the-sunset/comment-page-1/#comment-2569 Justbecause Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:11:21 +0000 http://www.rcmpwatch.com/?p=1245#comment-2569 Get Real , you mention Federal legislation in Canada . yes that would include the Controlled Drug & Substance Act, Immigration & Passport Act , Customs Act . I think you would agree pretty important stuff when its comes to running a country . You appear to be somewhat knowledgeable when its comes to everyday workings of the force . Don't you think the organization had all sorts of warning this crisis in Policing was coming ? Calvin LAWRENCE brings up some excellent points . The dedicated men & women in the front lines of the RCMP organization are the only ones trying to put the pieces back in a very shattered organization . You sound more like a Bureaucrat that sound be playing the company tune in Ottawa. Sorry to disaapoint if one seems bitter or disenchanted, however little is changing except the names at the top. I hope I am proven wrong !! Get Real , you mention Federal legislation in Canada . yes that would include the Controlled Drug & Substance Act, Immigration & Passport Act , Customs Act . I think you would agree pretty important stuff when its comes to running a country . You appear to be somewhat knowledgeable when its comes to everyday workings of the force . Don’t you think the organization had all sorts of warning this crisis in Policing was coming ? Calvin LAWRENCE brings up some excellent points . The dedicated men & women in the front lines of the RCMP organization are the only ones trying to put the pieces back in a very shattered organization . You sound more like a Bureaucrat that sound be playing the company tune in Ottawa. Sorry to disaapoint if one seems bitter or disenchanted, however little is changing except the names at the top. I hope I am proven wrong !!

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]]> By: GetReal http://www.rcmpwatch.com/time-to-ride-into-the-sunset/comment-page-1/#comment-2566 GetReal Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:35:39 +0000 http://www.rcmpwatch.com/?p=1245#comment-2566 I think the question that bears answering is what progress is being made in attempting to correct organizational and indeed personal shortcomings. As a society we will always have a percentage of malcontents, ne'er do wells, corruptables, bullies, etc. Our measure is our progress in keeping the percentages as low as possible, and our persistence in trying to reduce them. As we progress as a society we have instituted education on all manner of human foibles from driving while under the influence to the use / abuse of pharmaceuticals. Its a credible action that we bring spousal abuse, child abuse, polygamy, etc., out into the light for debate, discussion and attempts at solutions. There is less tendency to try and hide the little family "secrets", be they in an organization or personally. You have to remember that some parts of the "family" are functioning quite well. Its the other parts that need our attention. You have to be able to sort which is which and not affect the well oiled parts from the ones that need a little grease. We have been witness to some strides in the right direction in society in the past 10 years. What we need are solutions and discourse, not bitterness and "the sky is falling" mantra. I think the question that bears answering is what progress is being made in attempting to correct organizational and indeed personal shortcomings. As a society we will always have a percentage of malcontents, ne’er do wells, corruptables, bullies, etc. Our measure is our progress in keeping the percentages as low as possible, and our persistence in trying to reduce them.

As we progress as a society we have instituted education on all manner of human foibles from driving while under the influence to the use / abuse of pharmaceuticals. Its a credible action that we bring spousal abuse, child abuse, polygamy, etc., out into the light for debate, discussion and attempts at solutions. There is less tendency to try and hide the little family “secrets”, be they in an organization or personally. You have to remember that some parts of the “family” are functioning quite well. Its the other parts that need our attention. You have to be able to sort which is which and not affect the well oiled parts from the ones that need a little grease.

We have been witness to some strides in the right direction in society in the past 10 years. What we need are solutions and discourse, not bitterness and “the sky is falling” mantra.

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]]> By: chester http://www.rcmpwatch.com/time-to-ride-into-the-sunset/comment-page-1/#comment-2564 chester Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:47:51 +0000 http://www.rcmpwatch.com/?p=1245#comment-2564 I agree that people have to change, but it's the organization who protects upper management when they harass the members. The members have to live with the harassment and the upper management promote the supervisors to whom they've protected. It's a matter of time before the aboriginal members place a class action suit against the rcmp. I was harassed in 2005 by two supervisor's and placed on restrictions or now called LNR's. Both supervisors are now inspectors? I agree that people have to change, but it’s the organization who protects upper management when they harass the members. The members have to live with the harassment and the upper management promote the supervisors to whom they’ve protected. It’s a matter of time before the aboriginal members place a class action suit against the rcmp.
I was harassed in 2005 by two supervisor’s and placed on restrictions or now called LNR’s. Both supervisors are now inspectors?

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]]> By: Calvin Lawrence http://www.rcmpwatch.com/time-to-ride-into-the-sunset/comment-page-1/#comment-2560 Calvin Lawrence Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:09:56 +0000 http://www.rcmpwatch.com/?p=1245#comment-2560 Those of you who are now, or are past RCMP members; I would like to you consider a yes or no answer to the following questions: • RCMP members compulsively protect their inner feelings • Only certain feelings are ok to be openly expressed by the member • Performance is more important than the member • There are many taboo subjects and lots of secrets • Everyone must conform to the highest ranking member’s ideas and values • There is a great deal of control and shaming • There are a lot of “shoulds” from the higher to the lower ranks. • The rules are unclear, inconsistent, and rigid • The atmosphere is frequently tense • There is a great deal of anger and fear • People feel tired hurt and disappointed • A number of RCMP Members have low self-worth • Coalitions form across generations(keeps repeating the process) The above list is the traits of a dysfunctional family. These traits exist in all military and police organizations including the RCMP. What happens to people who criticizing the family? The family closes ranks and ostracizes the family member. The same process takes place in the RCMP organization. The RCMP is the name of a police organization. “People”! I repeat, “People” have to change before the organization will change. We cannot change what we do not acknowledge and this includes the RCMP. Calvin Lawrence CGL Consulting Those of you who are now, or are past RCMP members; I would like to you consider a yes or no answer to the following questions:

• RCMP members compulsively protect their inner feelings
• Only certain feelings are ok to be openly expressed by the member
• Performance is more important than the member
• There are many taboo subjects and lots of secrets
• Everyone must conform to the highest ranking member’s ideas and values
• There is a great deal of control and shaming
• There are a lot of “shoulds” from the higher to the lower ranks.
• The rules are unclear, inconsistent, and rigid
• The atmosphere is frequently tense
• There is a great deal of anger and fear
• People feel tired hurt and disappointed
• A number of RCMP Members have low self-worth
• Coalitions form across generations(keeps repeating the process)

The above list is the traits of a dysfunctional family. These traits exist in all military and police organizations including the RCMP. What happens to people who criticizing the family? The family closes ranks and ostracizes the family member. The same process takes place in the RCMP organization. The RCMP is the name of a police organization. “People”! I repeat, “People” have to change before the organization will change. We cannot change what we do not acknowledge and this includes the RCMP.

Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting

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]]> By: GetReal http://www.rcmpwatch.com/time-to-ride-into-the-sunset/comment-page-1/#comment-2556 GetReal Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:03:42 +0000 http://www.rcmpwatch.com/?p=1245#comment-2556 Far to simplistic a view. Just where do you think the provincial force would come from? From all the RCMP members doing police work now. Just how do you think it would be run? Just like all police forces in the world are run now. Just how would the new force deal with the drug problem? Same as it is now. The law dictates the procedures, methodology and outcome of all investigations. Guilt or innocence is not the focus of the courts, it is how did the police gather and store their evidence. You cannot blame the police for the failure of society to give it the tools to do the job efficiently. The courts are activist and out out touch. The recent Supreme Court decisions on the use of dogs by a 6-3 split should give you an inkling of the problem. You agree that the RCMP would do an excellent job Federally? Is this the same RCMP you think is beyond repair? Or is that just beyond repair provincially and municipally? I got news for you, the Criminal Code is federal law. Or would you have the RCMP just enforce the other myriad of federal laws? Restrict them to the Migratory Birds Convention Act? Mike Duffy as proof? Omigod, get real. Every police force in Canada is in a hiring frenzy. There are not enough applicants for a large proportion of almost every profession. To say that the organization is beyond repair is simply rubbish. Far to simplistic a view. Just where do you think the provincial force would come from? From all the RCMP members doing police work now. Just how do you think it would be run? Just like all police forces in the world are run now. Just how would the new force deal with the drug problem? Same as it is now. The law dictates the procedures, methodology and outcome of all investigations. Guilt or innocence is not the focus of the courts, it is how did the police gather and store their evidence. You cannot blame the police for the failure of society to give it the tools to do the job efficiently. The courts are activist and out out touch. The recent Supreme Court decisions on the use of dogs by a 6-3 split should give you an inkling of the problem.

You agree that the RCMP would do an excellent job Federally? Is this the same RCMP you think is beyond repair? Or is that just beyond repair provincially and municipally? I got news for you, the Criminal Code is federal law. Or would you have the RCMP just enforce the other myriad of federal laws? Restrict them to the Migratory Birds Convention Act?

Mike Duffy as proof? Omigod, get real.

Every police force in Canada is in a hiring frenzy. There are not enough applicants for a large proportion of almost every profession.

To say that the organization is beyond repair is simply rubbish.

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]]> By: Justbecause http://www.rcmpwatch.com/time-to-ride-into-the-sunset/comment-page-1/#comment-2554 Justbecause Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:17:14 +0000 http://www.rcmpwatch.com/?p=1245#comment-2554 Couldn't agree more , although the RCMP intentions are good I believe the organization is beyond repair . The new Commissioner refuses to make a decision and simply continues to shuffle the Brass , in name only . I would agree that the RCMP would do an excellent job if their mandate was narrowed to Federal law within the Country of Canada . We do not have the resources to even supply basic policing in some parts of the Country . Couldn’t agree more , although the RCMP intentions are good I believe the organization is beyond repair . The new Commissioner refuses to make a decision and simply continues to shuffle the Brass , in name only . I would agree that the RCMP would do an excellent job if their mandate was narrowed to Federal law within the Country of Canada . We do not have the resources to even supply basic policing in some parts of the Country .

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