(CBC) An elderly man in Kamloops, B.C., was zapped three times on the torso by a police stun gun while lying on his hospital bed, CBC News has learned.
Frank Lasser, 82, appeared fragile Thursday when he showed the Taser marks on his body and talked about the ordeal he went through Saturday.
“They [police] should have known I had bypass surgery,” Lasser told CBC News.
Lasser has had heart surgery and needs to carry an apparatus to supply oxygen at all times. He was in the Royal Inland Hospital Saturday due to pneumonia but has since been released.
RCMP said nurses called police after Lasser became delirious and pulled a knife out of his pocket.
Lasser told CBC News that he sometimes becomes delusional when he can’t breathe properly. He said he couldn’t explain why he refused to let go of the knife even after the Mounties arrived.
“I was laying on the bed by then and the corporal came in, or the sergeant, I forget which it was, and said to the guys, ‘OK, get him because we got more important work to do on the street tonight,’” Lasser said.
“And then, bang, bang, bang, three times with the laser, and I tell you, I never want that again.”
Kamloops RCMP said Thursday that officers had no other option but to deploy the conducted energy weapon when Lasser refused to drop his knife.
“Whether the person is 80 or 20, we are dealing with a person who had a deadly weapon in their hand,” Cpl. Scott Wilson told CBC News.
“We could not deploy our … pepper spray, because we could potentially contaminate the entire hospital.”
Lasser said there were three RCMP officers in his hospital room and believes they could have easily handled him without the use of a Taser.
“They could have gone in there and taken an old man without any trouble at all,” said Lasser, who is an ex-prison guard.
10 responses so far ↓
1 RCMP Watch // May 9, 2008 at 16:39
Bunnies and small children are key targets of RCMP Taser squad
Kelly McParland (National Post) - We noticed this item from from the RCMP about a rather odd case of Taser use by the RCMP in Kamloops, B.C. Officers used the stun gun three times on an 82-year-old who was carrying a knife. The man was recovering from bypass surgery and even carried a device that provides him with oxygen. We can’t make this stuff up. The following satirical column is almost entirely made up.
“I didn’t like the way he was looking at me,” constable explains.
Kamloops — The RCMP today defended their use of a stun gun to subdue an 82-year-old man with a heart problem who was Tasered in his hospital bed after undergoing bypass surgery.
Frank Lasser, 82, was Tasered three times after nurses complained that the frail old man had become delusional and pulled a knife from his pocket. Mr. Lasser said he couldn’t explain pulling out the knife or why he continued to hold onto it, which, since he was delusional, shouldn’t come as a big surprise.
A spokesperson for Kamloops RCMP said the three officers who confronted Lasser were fully justified in using the high-intensity weapon repeatedly against an ailing octogenarian in a hospital bed.
“Whether the person is 80 or 20, we are dealing with a person who had a deadly weapon in their hand,” Cpl. Furd Burfel explained. “Some of these old folks can be quite wily; first it’s a pen-knife, then next thing you know they’re flinging their Jell-O at you.”
British Columbia RCMP have established something of a track record in the use of Tasers, which administer an intense jolt of electricity through probes fired at a victim from up to 10 metres away. Previously they Tasered a Polish man who had spent 10 hours in Vancouver airport looking for his mother and was getting upset; and a man who made some noise in the street outside a building where Governor-General Michaelle Jean was appearing.
Vancouver Transit police have Tasered riders who refused to pay their fare, or just ran away when asked.
“In my opinion that is a wholly justified use of the weapon,” Corp. Burfel commented. “I’ve been on the transit myself and some of these blokes can be 100, 120 pounds and more. And you never know what they’re carrying in those backpacks. Many carry lunchbags, and they can crumple those things up and hurl them quick as you can say “Ouchie!”
Vancouver police on Thursday told an inquiry into Taser usage that they would hesitate to use one on a pregnant woman, even though they can get pretty grouchy at times. Const. Philomena Ducktape told inquiry lawyer Patrick McGoohan the force feared a Tasered woman might stumble and fall over, skinning her knee. The potential health risks to the woman or unborn child hadn’t occurred to them.
“Gee, I guess you might have a point there,” Const Ducktape allowed. “Do you think 50,000 volts of electricity passing through a fetus might have a negative effect? You think we should be using Mace instead?”
Cpl. Burfel said Kamloops police have put similarly deep thought into limitations on the use of Tasers.
“Essentially we can Taser anyone we feel like, for any reason at all, as long as they’re smaller, older and frailer than us, and represent no physical threat whatsoever,” he said.
“Tasering is especially effective if administered in the company of several other officers, against a lone victim with no capability of defending themselves. The other fellas get a bit of a giggle, and the victims are usually too dazed to identify anyone.”
Cpl. Burfel said the Mounties have used Tasers against bunny rabbits, kittens and small children in wheelchairs, but draw the line at Tasering their own mothers.
“Now hold on there — we’re not inhuman you know.
There are limits. Pepper spray is usually quite enough to subdue an angry mother, especially if she’s handicapped. I would never use a Taser against my Mom. Unless of course she had a pocket knife, in which case I’d zap the hell out of the old bat.”
2 Deepthroat // May 9, 2008 at 17:33
Two observations:
1. Octogenarian, heart bypass surgery recovery and oxygen tank. If the taser is so dangerous how come this 82 year old survived?
2. Your “satire” does little to further rational debate.
3 Simon // May 9, 2008 at 21:46
Thank you, moderator, for a completely asinine post that serves no purpose.
It’s only in the movies that the hero can wrestle a knife away from somebody without anyone getting hurt. Unarmed versus knife = getting cut. Guaranteed, no matter the size or strength difference. Even if the police were able to get the upper hand without getting cut, we must also consider the possibility that the old man would get cut.
So they had two options: the police trying to be the hero and wrestle the knife away, with a very high likelihood of injury; or the police using the taser with a very low likelihood of injury.
I would say it’s a good thing the police don’t make decisions with media optics in mind.
Maybe the family should have been left to deal with dear old dad and his knife since they apparently know how to best deal with these situations.
4 RCMP Watch // May 9, 2008 at 22:29
Are you suggesting three young healthy Mounties could not handle a sick and frail old man? There are other options. Young and inexperienced Mounties are too quick to pull the trigger. Why did they need to end it so quickly? No one was being injured. He was isolated. He was no threat to anyone else. What ever happened to the cop that use his most valuable weapon, his words? Instead three young healthy Mounties jolting an 82 year old heart patient hooked up to oxygen machines. What’s wrong with that picture?
5 RCMP Watch // May 10, 2008 at 09:29
RCMP taser knife-wielding 82-year-old
Anna Mehler Paperny (Globe and Mail) - Kamloops RCMP tasered an 82-year-old man in his hospital bed last Saturday after he threatened hospital staff with a knife.
Frank Lasser was in Royal Inland Hospital in Kamloops for pneumonia last weekend. At about 5:30 a.m. on Saturday he began to threaten the staff and pulled out a pocket knife, hospital spokeswoman Darshan Lindsay said. Although the hospital’s on-site security tried to handle the situation, it escalated and staff called RCMP.
RCMP tasered Mr. Lasser shortly after arriving.
“This patient was physically threatening staff. He posed a danger to our staff and other patients and this was a very serious situation and that’s why the RCMP were called,” she said.
“I can’t speak for the RCMP and the actions they took, but what I can say is our staff felt they required the assistance of the RCMP.”
Ms. Lindsay said Mr. Lasser had brought the knife with him into the hospital. “Generally patients’ belongings are not sorted through by staff. This is out of respect for patients and their privacy rights,” she said.
Mr. Lasser has since been discharged from hospital.
He has had heart surgery and carries an apparatus to supply oxygen.
He told CBC News that he sometimes becomes delusional when he can’t breathe properly, and said he couldn’t explain why he wouldn’t release the knife after the Mounties showed up. He described the stun-gun encounter as “bang, bang, bang, three times with the taser, and I tell you, I never want that again.”
Kamloops RCMP told the CBC they had no other choice but to use the taser. No one in the RCMP would comment last night.
6 deetthroat // May 10, 2008 at 15:17
What’s the rush, a 82 year man in his hospital bed with pneumonia that just recently had heart Surgery. I guess we’ll have to wait for the police complaints to investigate this one too.
7 CstBentonFraser // May 11, 2008 at 13:31
It was the Kamloops RCMP who tasered a physically disabled man who was handcuffed on their floor in the RCMP lockup. John Dempsey suffered from torsion dystonia, a muscle and movement disorder similar to Parkinson’s Disease. He was on a disability pension.
He was arrested Oct. 23, 2004, and charged with obstruction of justice when he tried to intervene in the arrest of friend whom he thought was being handled too roughly by an officer.
The real problem is not with the RCMP, the problem is with Canadians. Very very few people get killed by any type weapon at International airports by federal police, unlike Robert Dziekanski.
Canada and Canadians want to be known for being liberal minded, that’s a fact. A large percentage of voters still support the Liberals and liberal policies. Therefore we get a constant stream of news like this 82 year old tasering.
Liberal policies do not have checks or balances built in, you can taser handicapped people, you can taser tourists, you can taser the elderly, liberal amounts of liberal policies means anything goes.
If there is no opposition to killing a newly arrived immigrant at YVR with a taser or tasering a 60 year old Kelowna man while sitting in his parked car do you think anyone would care about tasering a convalescing 82 year hospital patient with nail clippers.
Like I said, it’s not the fault of the RCMP, on an international scale Canadian baby boomers are some of the biggest liberals in the world today and that goes hand in hand with the low morals and ethical standards.
Don’t blame the RCMP for this, we get the government (police) we deserve.
8 speaking_my_mind // May 12, 2008 at 18:50
I agree with Fraser on this one. For years liberal policies have been ruining Canada and anyone who doesn’t agree with them doesn’t have the guts to stand up against them. This is the reason the Conservative party has policies that are so watered down.
I hate liberals as much as the next guy. However, when retired members who were once part of the RCMP when it was a hard nosed conservative outfit/a real police force days talk about the taser it seems to be in a negative light. Tasers are lazy police work for wimps who don’t want to get their hands dirty or have the common sense to deescalate a situation with talk.
9 speaking_my_mind // May 13, 2008 at 08:34
Simon the fact you are attacking the moderator speaks volumes about your objectivity. Calling this post asinine, is the pot calling the kettle black.
If you knew anything about police work you would know that on any threat assessment level, a sick 82 year old man lying in bed with a jack knife isn’t much of threat because of his inability to rapidly deploy it. He is just a marginally higher threat than a guy in a wheelchair with a knife.
You should also know that there are other tools in the arsenal the least of which is standing back and trying to communicate with the person before you barge in and taser a guy who had heart surgery. The RCMP are supposed to follow the CAPRA model when making such decisions and all these factors should have been put into play.
Personally, I would have used the baton before I “wrestled” or shot a medically delirious heart patient with a taser. You don’t have to hit someone with a baton to use such a tool. They give a little bit of distance and can be used to incapacitate an arm or to try and pin it down. If someone provided cover with a taser while you kept a safe distance, than atleast it would look like someone is doing something other than lazy police work.
Furthermore, even if the old guy got cut that is far less likely to kill him than a taser jolt that very likely could stop his heart. Simon you saying “the police using the taser with a very low likelihood of injury” on a heart patient is ridiculous! Are you for real?
Also your point of leaving the family to deal with “dear old dad” is also uninformed. The family should expect better from the police which, by the way they help pay the salary of via taxes. Suggesting that they have to put up with this bad service or do it themselves just lacks maturity.
10 Deepthroat // May 13, 2008 at 13:30
I wonder what would have happened if the individual had actually hurt somebody with the knife while the police stood back and did nothing. Is it possible that he could have done harm to himself? I sometimes think that we trash the outcome before carefully considering the alternatives, just so we can bash the police.
You must log in to post a comment.