(CBC News) – A Vancouver-area RCMP officer is facing impaired driving charges a second time after getting stopped behind the wheel while his driver’s licence was suspended.
The off-duty Mountie was arrested Saturday morning after a Vancouver police officer watched a man urinate in the Spanish Banks parking lot on N.W. Marine Drive and then get into a vehicle and attempt to drive away.
After the Vancouver officer stopped the vehicle and identified the man as an RCMP officer, the man failed to pass a breathalyzer test, said police.
Vancouver police are recommending he face charges of driving while prohibited, impaired driving and driving with blood-alcohol exceeding 80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood. He was released and is scheduled to appear in court on Jan. 8.
Previous arrest for impaired driving
The 55-year-old officer, assigned to RCMP’s E Division headquarters, was previously arrested Oct. 3 after an accident on the Second Narrows Bridge, said police.
In that incident, police suspended his licence and recommended charges of impaired driving. He was scheduled to appear in court Nov. 20 in that case.
The officer’s name has not yet been released because the Crown counsel has not yet approved a criminal charge from either of the two incidents, but police did say the man has been a member of RCMP for 16 years and has been on medical leave since the October incident.
Sgt. Tim Shields, media relations officer for the RCMP in B.C., said the Mountie also faces two formal internal Code of Conduct disciplinary hearings where possible sanctions include loss of pay and dismissal.
“Impaired driving is the No.1 criminal cause of death in Canada,” Shields said. “As police officers, we have seen first-hand the carnage and death caused by this irresponsible behaviour. This makes it all the more difficult when an incident involves one of our own.”
“I kept no stats but I know what I saw therefore, the numerous examples that I could give would not be considered by your logic.” Incorrect. I accept your first hand account on the issues you witnessed, and it would add impetus to (only) one side of the debate. Your assertion of the alcohol abuse vis a vis the RCMP needs context, not only from the limited 20 year old statistics, but present day as well.
How are we to determine if any progress has been made? You reference Shields, but that is only disciplinary. What about employer policies in respect of assistance and guidance?
An additional facet of interest would be the overall alcohol abuse problem of the profession in comparison to others or just the general public. That the public has issues with alcohol is not news. That the RCMP is made up of the public, albeit in a high stress occupation, and would have alcohol issues should be no surprise to anyone. The key is relativity and severity on one hand and remedial action on the other. Were there the “dry out” clinics in your day? When were they imbued into policy?
You intimate no action on the part of the RCMP with respect to the issue, and claim it is ingrained in the culture. Are you saying that it was the case Canada wide in your day, or still is? Where is your empirical data to support either.
You cannot just intimate the RCMP has this large alcohol problem without any overall context. It may be that in the final analysis that they have a higher percentage of alcohol abuse than the public or lower than dentists or some other profession.
The motherhood statements are nice but if intended to influence for support, unnecessary if your position stands alone.
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You are 100% right when you talk about me and statistics. However, you are forgetting one important fact. The abuse of alcohol was observed by me. I kept no stats but I know what I saw therefore, the numerous examples that I could give would not be considered by your logic.
Was Dr. Dietrich’s recommendations accepted? No. Was he shunned and contained by RCMP management? Yes. Protect the RCMP image at all costs! That is not everyone’s attitude but it is ingrained in RCMP culture the same as drinking.
My role in this process was an enabler. Other members were more enabling by looking for the police vehicle when misplaced by the intoxicated NCO the night before. I was the designated driver for those members who consumed alcohol. Every member has a role. There is no escape if you are an RCMP member.
Think of a detachment and the roles that were played out:
The Alcoholic Dependent Person – perfectionist, aggressive, charming, blaming, etc.
The Chief Enabler – sickly powerless, compliant, Manipulative, etc.
The Family hero – successful, independent, seeking approval, perceptive, etc.
THe Scapegoat- sullen, defiant, acting out, blaming, etc.
The Lost Child – creative loners, solitary, withdrawn, etc.
The Mascot – hyperactive, humour, centre of attention, etc.
Each member could could take on any of the above roles. They are interchangeable at any give time. This may be a little over the top for some readers but I do not have the luxury of power point or over heads to state my position here.
I was proud to be a member of the RCMP but I also believe in tough love. I did not go along to get along because that is fraud.
We all go from the womb to the tomb. The only thing that matters is what we stand for.
Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting
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“The counterpoint here is that past and present behaviour (unchecked or unexamined) is a prediction of future behaviour.” I would think that that is actually your point no?
I call for recent supporting (complimenting) information, or non supporting (counterpoint) information. Hardly a defense.
You provide no statistics or studies to show the percentages today Calvin. Simply because RCMP officers are in trouble due to alcohol, it does not mean a rise or even a drop in the questionable overall statistics you quote relative to today’s situation. Thus my comment on a compliment or counterpoint to them. If you are extrapolating from single incidents listed here, you provide no explanation as such. 3043 out of 15,000 odd RCMP officers 20 years ago is hardly a representative sample based on present day models.
An accurate picture could be drawn if you could provide something other than 20 year old statistics. alone. A comparison percentage to society in general would be germane as well, and provide some context.
The fact that society has some issues with alcohol consumption is certainly not news. The fact that RCMP officers, being part of society, have some alcohol issues is also no surprise.
Your assumption of defense at all times is also inaccurate, (check previous posts) in that pointing out mitigating or contrary factors does not always constitute a defense, but merely raises questions with respect to stated analysis and purported assumptions. Qualifiers are always desirable to augment ones position and give a clearer picture free of biased conclusions.
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The counterpoint here is that past and present behaviour (unchecked or unexamined) is a prediction of future behaviour.
With respect; you would think that a person of your intellect and experience would realize that fact. I know that you try but you can’t defend the RCMP organization at all times. Some truths just have to be acknowledged and dealt with.
The dots can be connected regarding abuse of alcohol in policing and the RCMP. If you want to see what progress that has been made just read the headline and response by Sgt. Shields.
After all is said and done more is said than done.
Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting
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I would be more interested in your statistics if the 20 year old numbers had a present day compliment or counterpoint.
Health care is a money making industry, far more lucrative than impaired driving, so what is your point on that issue? Law enforcement bleeds money hourly as it is not a for profit enterprise. The ancillary “industries” of lawyering, body shops, etc., are just that. They are for profit and would survive without impaired driving. Health care has the same.
As far as taking the vehicles upon conviction, there is already laws on the forfeiture of offense related property, in the case of impaired it is the vehicle, however the Crown is reluctant to proceed. The reason for this is the case law surrounding the forfeiture in relation to the offense. The courts view any seizures as punitive and after meting out their adjudication, find forfeiture of assets onerous in addition to the sentencing they do.
You would find, even if this would become the norm, that people would be using 3rd party vehicles, as well as inexpensive transportation to avoid large monetary loss. People will always adapt.
As far as “root causes” there is a great deal of hyperbole surrounding the debate. There will always be people with addiction issues, be they the internet, pharmaceuticals. illegal drugs, or alcohol. To think that we can eliminate that is sheer folly. Society must deal with it in which ever way the majority of the population wants to, because it is a democracy. Warehousing of borderline and full blown mentally ill persons was standard in the past decades, and now we as a society have deemed they may live on the streets regardless of their condition, because it is their “right”. Violent mentally ill persons can refuse to take medication as is their right, regardless of the impact to the local citizenry. This is our level of permissiveness today.
So I am not entirely supportive of your last statement.
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I am trying to connect the dots as to how a case of impaired driving generates a discussion on racial conflict. I guess that the following statement is true:
No major problem that exists between the people of the known universe ,can be eliminated until racial conflict is eliminated.
I am now going to attempt to return to the topic of impaired driving.
Impaired driving is a problem in society. Police officers are recruited from society therefore it is not surprising that drinking and driving touches police organizations generally and the RCMP specifically. It is time that the root causes of the problem are examined rather than just the actions of the individual drinking members.
Joseph F. Dietrich Dr.P.H., C.A.C. started the Members Assistance Program in the RCMP. He is one of the foremost authorities in the world on Police and Alcohol.
He conducted a survey of RCMP members in 1989. The Clarke Institute in Toronto was used as the mailing point. 3500 questionnaires were sent out to the members across Canada. 3043 members answered the questions.
The results were:
11% of members were having 7 or more drinks a day.
17% of members were having 5 or more drinks a day.
35% of members were having 3 or more drinks a day.
26% of members needed psychological intervention.
I was also privileged to have him present to members on our training days while posted in the Prime Minister’s Protection Detail. A few statements that he made comes to mind.
Most members would have had an alcoholic supervisor in the first five years of their service. (I did)
Make the members aware of the statistics. (They may reduce their drinking)
Raise the mess prices to commercial prices. (They may reduce their drinking)
The drinking culture starts early. There are several drinking locations at Depot.
My opinion on Impaired driving and society:
Removing impaired drivers from our roads is an ongoing process. The courts have implemented cars with breathalyzers, and educational courses, and now we as a society want to hold others responsible. (Hosts of functions where alcohol is served.)
Society expects us to drink and drive. Why else would there be parking lots built for drinking establishments?
Society my get more answers as to why we continue to have the problem of impaired driving by following the money trail. The police officer is in court testifying and receives overtime pay, society through the courts imposing fines, the increase insurance costs incurred by the accused, the auto body repair shops, defence lawyer’s fees, installing apparatus in vehicles to detect if the driver is impaired, business advertising in MADD magazine and more; all make money from the impaired driver. If someone is killed even the funeral home makes money. (Don’t forget to include the tax.)
Impair driving is a money making industry.
A major solution to the drinking and driving problem is forfeiting the driven vehicle to the crown upon conviction. There would have to be a faint hope close where application could be made to have the vehicle returned. (EG: rental or commercial vehicle.) The incidents of multiple convictions of an individual would be reduced. How many impaired drivers would be in a position to have three or four cars seized? No one would lend or rent a vehicle, or employ that person as a driver, after the first offence. I doubt that an impaired driver could afford to purchase three or four cars after each conviction and the vehicle was seized.
We as a society are now entering an age where other drugs as well as alcohol are being consumed and people are driving high. The case law in the criminal code demonstrates overwhelmingly that there is a good chance that an impaired driver using alcohol will be acquitted. The use of other drugs is not even detectable in most cases.
If a deer or moose is shot out of season or without a permit there is a possibility that the vehicle would be forfeited to the crown upon conviction. The least we can do is apply the same law to a human being.
Until real solutions are found and real issues are addressed; the loss of life due to impaired driving is just the cost of doing business to make money.
Calvin Lawrence
C.G.L Consulting
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Just another thing re Internal Process when you have a conplaint against the RCMP (even a Human Rights one) it goes through the RCMP. Human Rights will tell you you file with the Commissioners Office first teh if not satisfied you go to Human Rights. So the RCMP investigates itself and covers up. Call the Commissioners office they will tell you we let Divisions handle their Internal matters. Hey I got a fair shake so far why not trust them more?? As for Promotions a lot of caucasians get promoted within their Divisions but the Minorities/Females and Natives have to move outside their Division and even the Maritimes to get a promotion, this is the same as other big Companies,how?
As for writing a book it might be nice to blow of some steam good therapy, who knows, People are just not interested in the Force anymore. look at thie site its 90% Police Officers. We all have good and bad stories about the Companies we work or worked for, and I for one will state the RCMP is still one of the best Companies to work for and the Top Police Force if you want to become a Police Officer, I just wrote what I observed and wanted to get my opinion/story out there. Could have went to the press but the RCMP (good members) have enough crap to deal with now. Those who know me know my stand and know weather I was guilty or not, they stood by me family anf friends and for that I am thankful. The one or two members who are my friends knew, the senior ones always said you can win the battle. My NCO andI/C always said I would never make 24 if they had any input. For the members out there 15 yrs no courses, figure it out.
Thanks, I do enjoy this site.
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Well gentleman thank you I know most can figure out who I am but I am a man who stands behind what he says and does not try to hid behind madeup names. Most people will comment on things behind the safety of closed doors or darkness. I had a lot of members who knew I was getting railroaded and they refused to come forward. As for the Wal-Mart incident I was still in the store when approached and the NGPD called the RCMP to see what they should do, go figure. As for being racist go to any community be they African Canadain or First Nations we all know what red/black on he outside and white in the center is. As for my spelling/english, I went to school and university and took a writing report for reports, neither the Crown nor theCourts had a problem with my reports and I had a 95% conviction rate. My judgement was poor in thinking if you don’t do wrong you don’t get in trouble, also in putting my trust in the RCMP and Justice System. I know Johnny G is a member and pretty sure Deepthroat is to. Keeping the can at the Det was not an option as most times members work alone. As for the Red Serge my child ask me to go and I Love my children very much. I have great respect for 70% of the RCMP most on the Front Lines but its those who run it and make the decisions I have no respect for and question their honesty.
As for my judgement I was left in charge plenty of times I never had problems with the public/ or my dealings with the public nor did I have any problems with my investigations..
But as we all know there is two sides to every story and mine is but one and when it came to Court my side was’t heard and the Law Firm who represented me is well respected and by the time it was apparent they were screwing me I could not afford to chance lawyers,the Justice System sometimes most times tilts in the favor of who can pay the most and when your up against the Goverment they can fight forever.
Deals are made all the time the Crown wanted the Wal-Mart to go through Adult Diversion and wanted to deal out the Gas Can incident within the first month the RCMP said no deal as did NGPD ( they ahd said no worries we’ll get it all straightened out we just have to talk to your boss.) Never heard from them again, I was served papers for the charge by the RCMP a Sgt. of all people. Even though I am just a small fry I rec’d alot of special attention. Courts told me I needed a Lawyer to launch an appeal and would not send me out the paperwork until I had one, I called two high profile Law Firms and told them in a message who I was going up against and who my Lawyer had been and guess what, no one returned my call.
Those of you who have been in the Force know the game and know what emenies in the Force are capable of.
To let you know the gas thing caused a 6 month suspension of my license and it goes on my driving record, the Judge ordered it off my record due to the fact the bill was put in place to discourage driving from the Pumps without paying. Now for the past 2 months I have been in a battle with the DMV who stated the Judge did not have that power and it should be back on my record. You know who represents the DMV the same department being run by my old boss, the Dept of Justice. So tell me am I special do I deserveall this attention, are you happy with the way your taxes get spent. Anyhow gentleman and ladies I hope and pray no one ever has to find out how it feels to go through this 2-3 yr struggle or anything like it.
Thank You
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EX Cop, You might as well used your real name as there is no other case in Nova Scotia of RCMP and gas theft that I know of.
By the way, you didn’t mention it, but what happened at that New Glasgow Walmart store, when the town police were called?
Wearing your old red serge when you no longer serve with the organization? Are this for real? As far as I have ever known the only people that can wear a red serge are retired members (in good standing) with a letter of permission from the brass. Though a ceremonial uniform, in my opinion what you did was impersonating a police officer.
If it were me and I truly felt I had been railroaded by the system, I would’t want to wear the red serge. I would have burned it, not worn it.
Regarding the gas can. Ever hear the accronym CYA- Cover Your Ass?? Did you ever get permission from your section Cpl or detachement commander to carry a can in the ca?. I understand that in rural area’s gas stations sometimes close early, but couldn’t you have gotten a can and kept it in the garage at the detachement? Personally, I don’t like the the idea of several gallons of flammable/combustable liquid flying around in my trunk. Kinda makes me uneasy if you know what I mean…
I will be the first to agree that the RCMP is full of Old Boys Clubs an is very political. I will also agree that there are alot of double standards in regard to who stays and who gets shown the door. I am also the first to acknowledge that harassment can be rife in the orgainzation and high flyers can get hounded out for being a threat. But, my problem with what you are telling me is that I am seeing a pattern of poor judgement being exercised. I also don’t mean to pick on your style of writing, but after 15 years in the force how in the world did you ever pass in reports to the crown to go before the courts?
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Quite a narrative. It becomes confusing in a number of areas due to the poor grammar and spelling. You do not relate whether or not you took advantage of the appeal process of any internal dispute through to Federal Court as is your right.
“The RCMP state they want to promote minorities will most of the Minorities/Native/Females promoted in the Maritime have rec’d their promotions outside the Maritime and transfer back in or are what we call oreo’s/apples, balck/red on the outside and white on the in.” (sic)
This statement would be an example of you being racist if you are putting the “we” in as an inclusion of yourself. It seems that “they” do get promotions so what is the point? They have to go to other offices for a particular job, against their wishes? And this differs from major companies in what way?
“Maybe I’ll write a book but then I would proably disappear.” (sic)
You have all the makings of a first rate thriller there excop. Intrigue, conspiracy, secret societies, racism, exclusive handshakes.
Just don’t forget to check the gas gauge once in a while.
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Hey first time on here commenting and it will proably get me in trouble. But here goes.
The RCMP works with the press and they get the press to spin the story the way they want so they can safe or get rid of a member depending on what the old boys club wants.
You can discharge your firearm in anger, while out in public or in a domestic with your spouse and you keep your job. You can get charged/conficted for DUI(impaired) and keep your job. You can assault someone and keep your job. File a racial harrassment complaint against the Old Boys club and your gone.
The RCMP have members on this and other sites who’s only job is to sway public opinion, depending if they want to keep or fire a member, they will right good or bad comments.
I was a member for 15 yrs and I filed two racial harrassment complaints and in both cases my complaint was dealt with ( swept under the rug) and within a month I was put under Internal Invetigation last time I was charged and I had to resign.
My first Internal was for failing to back up a member I ran out of gas, after a fight I kept my job. After that I carried a gas can in my police car, thinking they will never get me with that again, I was right 10 yrs later after my last complaint I was Investigated and charged with theft of gas ( their reasoning was at some point some of the gas in the can more then likely went in my vehicle or snow blower or lawn mower( you get the pic.)
My lawyer the Crown made a deal I resign and plea guilty and get a discharge( no record) ( after all the discharge members for DUI/Assault/Careless use of a Firearm/Improper use of a Tazer, etc) the only difference is those members keep their jobs , I was leaving looking at joining the Military(MP’s) or Truck driving, can’t have a record for either. So after two years and 40000 dollars I said ok.
In sentencing before the Judge came out my Lawyer and the Crown spoke of going golfing afterward. When the Judge came out he stated a bunch of stuff some of which was public interest/ Crown disagreed with (although I was told the Crown agreed with) so no discharge and 18 months probation. Female member in NS (where I am at) rec’d a discharge after 12 months probation for discharging her firearm while in a domestic with her husband. Ask any member and they could of told you at the time she would not loss her job.
I had called the Commissioner Office at the time and they stated they let Divisions handle their own internals. The Commissioner at the time of his appointed stated he had no Police experience and was a Politician. He stated he was appointed to clean up the RCMP and regard Public’s Trust NOT! He was appointed to keep heat off the goverment, the RCMP had several important investigations going on in and around that time, what better way to keep an eye on those investigations. His office states if you are being harrassed or know of wrong doings in the Force come forward and we will deal with it, yeah they call the division state so and so made this complaint, the Division invetigates covers up and gets revenge done.
The RCMP investigates itself HA they use Major Crimes unit or Internal anyone in the Force can tell you in the Maritime at least the only way to get into theses units is old boys club or have friends and not know how to do real Police work out int he streets and they will put you in Plain Cloths.
The RCMP state they want to promote minorities will most of the Minorities/Native/Females promoted in the Maritime have rec’d their promotions outside the Maritime and transfer back in or are what we call oreo’s/apples, balck/red on the outside and white on the in.
In my sentence hearing the Crown stated they would not ask for resitution as they did not know how much if any gas I took, also will the Internal wsa going on they found out a member had filled a Police Veh with at least 30gals more the tank could hold, they swept that aside after they asked him and he stated owe the tank most be bigger then others( yeah that happens all the time).
You have members convicted of DUI/Assault/Careless use of a Firearm/ Domestics/ Improper use of Tazer/Threats/Sexual Assault and they keep their jobs and get discharges. Usually the RCMP states they were under stress and are now seeking help.
The Judge stated in Public Interested he could not discharge me , the never looked at one I resigned two I was under medical care for PTS(stress) and was on Stress leave prior to the investigation also I had two possible jobs one an MP(Military Police) second Truck Driving, both of which required no record.
Still have not gotten work, stay at home dad. My 6 yr old on Nov 10th asked me to go to school in Red Serge to honor the ones who diied for our freedom, I did two days later rec’d a letter from Halifax HQ stating if I ever wore Red Serge again they would seek the aid of the Justice Dept to cahrge me. Funny the Justice Department is now run by my ex boss an ex RCMP member, the same one I filed a racial harrassment complaint against go figure.
Now let me tell you one last thing. I am a Minority member, yes I am bitter but , I would tell you as a minority/native/female or caucasiun who sticks up for the rights of others inside and out of the RCMP to join it is a great job but watch your back cover your ass, keep good notes, choose you battles, don’t depend on members to back you and don’t come back to the Maritimes for a while.
The Old Boys club is strong in the RCMP, I was told my first year in when you meet a member especially higher ups look at their uniform or hand most have a symbol showing they belong to the Masonic Lodge(Masons) I was also shown a handshake to use when you meet members (one know only to Lodge members) I was told by a Mason who was a member and liked me to join the Masons and I would have a lot less trouble in the RCMP.
I had an argument with a Staff/Sgt over the RCMP and Masons I stated the KKK by any other name well you know, Is the RCMP that bad no but they are very racist here in the Maritimes, I know of members who deserve to be promoted and had to leave the Maritimes to get their promotions.
Now I have said enough and am in more trouble then I need but this is my opinion. Also MADD and Victim Services have you ever questioned why the RCMP is so easy on Members convicted of Drunk Driving or Crimes agaginst people.
Can anyone tell me of other forums like this.
Maybe I’ll write a book but then I would proably disappear.
Remember the RCMP, Govermant, Press and big Law Firms are all connected and they all do Favors for each other the same as any business.
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Deepthroat is correct about the Kangaroo court. The force is full of politically correct double standards. I have once heard of a native female that flunked out of depot when she had been seen there by a western tribal force for training. She failed the midterm twice which means that you cannot reapply to ever go back. But, because she was in depot training for a “tribal force” and not the RCMP she was to be afforded a another chance wearing an RCMP uniform. I wonder how quickly the door would have swung back open had this been a white male who was being sponsored by a tribal agency?
White male cadets get flung out of training for having alcohol problems, but a minoirty once went AWOL after his passout parade and was sent to rehab before he started work. One gets dried out, another gets kicked out….
Years ago Saskatchewan MP Gary Berkowitz did a report on how Political Correctness is a higher priority than public safety. He spoke of the flawed hiring practices and minoirities getting preferred postings. Anyone with 2 clues knows what is going on, but nobody talks about it!
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At the risk of sounding cynical, is this enough for them to get rid of him?
Bearing in mind a couple of established precepts:
1. He obviously has a “substance abuse problem”.
2. He is going to whine he has been mistreated, misunderstood, a minority subject to discrimination, not given proper supervision.
3. The RCMP kangaroo court does some strange things like trying to fire people who send unacceptable emails, but claims “modern management practices” when leaving alcoholics on the job.
4. The criminal code has special dispensations for native criminality.
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Drunk RCMP officer found near UBC
Thursday, November 12th, 2009
ubyssey.ca
A 55-year-old RCMP officer is being charged for drunk driving for the second time in two months after being found on Saturday morning by the VPD near UBC.
According to News1130, the officer was spotted by the VPD urinating in a parking lot on Northwest Marine Drive close to campus. He then attempted to drive away, but was pulled over and given a sobriety test. He arrested and later discovered to be an off-duty officer. The officer was also arrested on October 3 after being involved in a collision on the Second Narrows Bridge.
The officer has been in the RCMP for about 16 years. He faces two internal Code of Conduct disciplinary hearings; possible sentences include dismissal and loss of pay.
RCMP Sergeant Tim Shields told News1130 that he has “never heard of a case such as this within the RCMP” and that it is “extremely disappointing.”