Chris Cobb (Canwest News Service) – RCMP Commissioner William Elliott says the word “glacial” aptly describes the RCMP’s internal disciplinary system.
“It is far too slow,” he said. “It is far too cumbersome and far too legalistic. Among other things, we need to revise the array of sanctions available. We go from a maximum of the loss of two weeks’ pay to being fired. The firing takes forever,” he said in a candid interview with the Ottawa Citizen.
“We need to streamline that process and speed it up. That’s true of other processes within the RCMP as well. Our grievance process is also in need of significant changes.”
According to the RCMP, 78 officers currently face formal discipline; 47 of them are suspended. More than half of the 78 disciplinary cases were initiated during the 12 past months. Ten of the suspensions date back more than two years. The oldest dates to 2004.
Two of the suspended officers — one being Kevin Gregson, accused of killing an Ottawa police officer in December –are not receiving a salary.
Pay and allowances are cut only in “extreme circumstances,” say the RCMP. Changes to the disciplinary system require legislative amendments to the federal RCMP Act, Mr. Elliott said. “We will bring them to the government, [and] hopefully they will agree to bring them to Parliament.”
Mr. Gregson is charged with stabbing Constable Eric Czapnik, 51, after driving to an Ottawa hospital in a car he had earlier hijacked outside a Tim Hortons. At the time of his arrest, Mr. Gregson was wearing two RCMP-issued bulletproof vests. Const. Czapnik died from a knife wound to the throat shortly after being attacked. Mr. Elliott said more could have been done to help Mr. Gregson.
“You’ve got to think that given the end result — the killing of an Ottawa police officer — somewhere along the line, we and others could have or should have done more or different for Gregson,” said Mr. Elliott, the RCMP’s civilian chief.
As an Ottawa Citizen investigation revealed, the 43-year-old was at war with his superiors for much of his 12-year Mountie career. He was on paid suspension for several years as he fought the RCMP’s slow-moving disciplinary system.
Despite the charges against him, Mr. Gregson is still officially a Mountie and is still officially
appealing a decision to dismiss him from the force.
Mr. Gregson, who visited the homes of several senior officers to complain about the way he was treated by superiors, showed up at Mr. Elliott’s door in March 2008 to ask the top Mountie for help with a series of perceived injustices.
The visit was in defiance of a previous order issued in Saskatchewan that barred Mr. Gregson from going to the homes of senior officers. Mr. Gregson arrived at Mr. Elliott’s home with his mother and some home-baked cookies. He also brought documents related to his own history of alleged injustice — some of the same material he had been attempting to get his bosses to read.
The commissioner’s son answered the door. But Mr. Elliott said that had he been home, he would have invited Mr. Gregson in to talk.
Can we talk about solutions and what kind of reforms should be or could be implimented in the RCMP, or in police forces in general.
Is there a better way to accommodate the members in performing their duties, while also assuring internal & external work ethics?
What kind of safety measures can supervisors or officers implement while they work to protect the public from harm, as they come down on law breakers, in executing their powers?
It seems that every time the police gets in trouble and questions are raised, they scream for more protection.
How can we expect accountability when the only concerns, are the ones the police have, departments are created to help them and it takes a video to help prove that sometimes they are not above board?
What can be done to help all concerned not just the concerns of police?
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I think when the deterrent is present it’s 50% of the battle won and when there’s no accountability in the equation, there becomes the potential of abuse of powers.
I say when someone is acting unbecoming of a police officer and the members he works with hide’s that he is out of control if it be in drinking, drugs spousal or just to aggressive in the line of duty that the discipline factor should come down also on the members hiding the potential problem and the supervisors writing their assessments.
Also when that members hurts someone while performing his duties for whatever reason like the BC incident that the public should have recourse and not what we have seen it in the past years of shuffling those victims till they give up or quit or discredit them to the point that the officer who did the infraction looks like the SAINT.
If you are going to uphold Justice in a just way start with the people first that has been victimized by some of those shady characters in uniform who demand and expect our help and loyalty.
If you don’t then what have you become like?
I think you need to take another look at those sheep dogs you made reference to before, because some of these sheep dogs have turned to wolves.
If you don’t like people and you can’t handle the job, get out of police work.
I think the system is to lenient towards their own and to harsh when it comes to the public and if the supervisors are to afraid to fire the ones that should be in police work to begin with then they should hire a woman, she will do the job.
No offence intended to anyone.
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DT,
I see the value of statistics. I also see the value on what people have to say.
Today’s society is entitled! No argument there. The culture of entitlement is one reason why I don’t think things are the way they used to be.
I agree that illegitimate complaints of bullying do exist, such as a strict supervisor. As long as supervision is done in a fair and just manner, I think there should be punitive measures taken against those who make such bogus allegations. The difference I am making is that I think in the past you were ousted after you failed. Today you can get ousted because people are setting you up to fail. This once again falls into the culture of entitlement, when people would rather drag others down to get ahead than work to get ahead because they perceive it as their God given right. I am not saying this may be any worse than anywhere else at the moment. But, this type of harassment should be rooted out in any outfit.
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JohnnyG, quantitative information is instructive in that it provides context for the qualitative as well as other aspects. For example, if you have 5 such complaints of equal or greater seriousness in an organization of 15,000, it is entirely different than if you had 500 or 5000 such complaints, (and the number that are substantiated). Do you see the relevance of quantitative?
Boomer, the “old days” and the previous generations have been repeating that mantra for time immemorial in many parts of society. Pro bono in the large law firms preceded the legal aid industry now entrenched. There are some that feel the system was better served in this manner with a lot less waste.
I would have to classify the present generation in society as the generation of entitlement. Everybody gets a ribbon, nobody loses, everybody passes a grade, its your right to do whatever you want. And if I can’t, I will get a lawyer and make you. Just look at what has happened to the selection process in the RCMP and other organizations. The courts or government sets their standards not the organization, which is in itself another complex debate.
In a large organization the supervisor that demands exacting standards is often classified as a bully or too rigid. One mans gold.
I would suggest that any efforts to “streamline the process” is going to be met with legal and procedural challenges because one size is not going to fit all, and employees will expect individualized and special treatment. The process is too slow? Not much different than the snail pace legal system, (yes legal system) for speed. We seem to accept a lot of distortion in society, but then bleat endlessly when institutions become reflective of that society.
Interesting suggestion to have outside agency participation in the various processes. Is that not the bailiwick of a union funded by the members?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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JohnnyG reminded me when I was a recruit; a senior member with 34 years’ service told me that he was glad he was at the end of his service and not at the beginning because the force had changed so much over his service. Now years later and I am out, I recall telling the young members the same story, and finished the story by saying that at the end of their service, they’ll repeat the same thing to new members. I heard the same complaints 34 years ago as there are today, but years ago, the problem member was transferred, or if in some cases where it was the senior member running the detachment was the problem, the members making the complaint were moved and the problem continued, just became someone else’s problem.
The new commissioner has stated “It is far too slow,” When dealing with internal disciplinary problems.
“We need to streamline that process and speed it up. That’s true of other processes within the RCMP as well. Our grievance process is also in need of significant changes.”
The RCMP has been around for 137 years and so have all the same problems that we are reading about. Having members investigate members has not worked. Then old sayings ‘if it isn’t broke don’t fix it. Wake up and smell the roses. The force is broken and it times to fix it.
In my opinion turn the disciplinary concerns and grievances over to an independent organization, separate from the RCMP with full access to files, members, ect, give them a mandate to come up with a conclusion without being bias in favor of either the member or management, and most the problems would be history before they became major problems that take years to decide. And yes in the end it will still go back to transfer the member out so he becomes someone else’s problem. However if the RCMP made the person accountable for his mistake, whether it’s a senior member or a junior member, make him responsible for his actions! If the problem continues, demote the manager in rank or back onto the street or in the case of a junior member, re train the member until he or she is up to standards or release them. Then see how long it takes to fix the problems in discipline or grievances.
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DT,
You seem to be entirely focused on having “Quantitive” data regarding the force being a much more mean spirited organization. However everyone here is presenting their own “Qualitative” research which includes what we have all witnessed, as well as the direct conversations we have had with those afflicted. Over the years I have known plenty of 30+ year guys who say this wasn’t the force they joined and how the work ethic is different, how there is no comradery anymore and yes that the outfit is like a bad episode of Survivor.
You also raise another point, maybe the force isn’t any worse than it always was, maybe people are just talking about it now. However, I do think it is worse, (not necessarily a reflection of the organization, but of society itself). However, that is just my opinion. No more, no less.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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The RCMP need to have a union to help with the discipline instead of having “control freaks” trying to dictate the whole discipline issue throughtout the entire country.
The “Old Boys Club” plays to much favoritism to some members then tries to get rid of the members that don’t join their club. Then in comes the issue of the Charter. The force has to learn to be fair. I think mangement is just as, if not more at fault than the problem member.
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CL; someone needs to be accountable for the organizations (RCMP) or any other organization which employs individuals and be responsible for the actions of those individuals, be it good or bad.
We tend to see head of departments as disconnected (deliberate or not) when the bad is exposed saying we didn’t know this was a problem and then being granted immunity or relieved while running from accountability.
If someone is in charge of a department and something goes wrong in that department he should be haled in just the same as the employee to account why this happen.
If I own a business, Am I not responsible for the actions of my employees and when they become a problem in that company, Am I not the one to correct it. I think we tend to put to much responsibility on the employee looking after themselves and not realizing we all have a part in this structure.
Management has a duty to manage and when something goes wrong it’s quite likely there’s been issues in that area for some time that has not been dealt with.
It doesn’t escape my attention that some of these officers have genuine issues and some maybe at the verge of cracking up in the line of duty but what does escape me is why they are not helped before they become so entrenched that no one can intervene?
Is it pride or I just don’t care attitude that fuels this insanity?
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I was referring to more specific accomplishments as opposed to the motherhood type of reference. Sheepdog is right up there with the enemy of my enemy is my friend, as outlined in your next example vis a vis helping former adversaries. You ignore the note I made of health services progression. Sorry if I was not clearer.
JohnnyG, you miss the point in my hyperbole. I thought you would as it is illustrative of the hyperbole often used here which gives no context or definition to an issue. If I may, birds of a feather etc..
What initially I addressed was ““I predict mass violence in the workplace. RCMP members are already trying to harm themselves right now. It is only a matter of time before they turn their guns on others”.” The circumstances are different but the result of my prediction was true.”
I consider that hyperbolic, and self serving as an over the top statement with respect to the initial topic.. Thus my mention of an actual violent incident many years prior. Do you see the correlation between the two?
Cause and effect are easily confused. I will give you a simple example: Jessy joins the RCMP. Ten years later she is afflicted with a depression. Jessy concludes that the RCMP must be the cause of her illness. The newspapers are masters of the cause and effect argument fallacy. The interesting sidebar is that many articles begin with or have contained in them, A former RCMP officer….. Also an example of post hoc fallacy depending on the construction.
Now take the following statement: “Over the years this has become much more mean spirited. The RCMP are making members sick (Major Depression, Adjustment Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder etc.) Often these conditions are the direct result of the actions of INDIVIDUAL RCMP members.”
This statement is a supposition that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction. there is no empirical data from which to draw the initial conclusion that the RCMP is more mean spirited. It negates any other influence, such as the internal representation system, the ERC, the introduction of the grievance process, psychological treatment, etc. It also negates the fact that at one time the RCMP could and did terminate employees without due process as we now accept it.. There were no “voices” in the RCMP. There were instant transfers, firings, rigid discipline, etc. So just on the face of those few mitigating examples, you cannot draw the conclusion of the RCMP being more mean spirited now than when? 10, 20, 30 years ago? Even that is nebulous. Examine the due process as it stands today. A wise man once told me that “its not the outcome, but the process that people want”.
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DT,
I think that was very smart of you to refrain from trying to compare a bullying reference from a civilized online debate where four people simply disagree with you.
The fact is more and more people are speaking out about some of the problems in respect to hostile work environments. Obviously more people on this forum think this issue is more of a problem than you do. I would hardly call this tyranny!
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The mistake that we make as a society is to blame organizations(RCMP) or groups for the actions of individuals. How clear issues would be if individuals at all levels were held accountable for their conscious actions with the information that they had at the time.
If you are indeed looking for the good in people, where are the mention of positive accomplishments, or are you of the mind that since you departed the RCMP, or indeed the past 20 years, there have been none?
DT
In answer to your question please read one of my past positive comments.
Police Officers are similar to sheep dogs. The sheep are a little leery of the sheep dog. They sometimes have to move the sheep here and there. But when that Wolfe comes around they love that old sheep dog!
CL
Your response DT was:
True enough. How is your civil suit against the RCMP coming?
DT
My comment was very positive and you acknowledged that. You also were quick to let people know of my complaint or perhaps you were genuinely interested. No matter. It was already posted on the web. I was just making my point. Some of the same RCMP members who held negative opinions of me because of my complaint later came to me for help. I did help them because they needed it.
People in the RCMP who don’t care about money or power are perceived to be very dangerous to those who are. We live in a very sick society when people who speak the truth have to seek legal protection. Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes.
We should take this site serious but don’t take it personal.
Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting
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So Calvin if I read your last post correctly, you agree that that your “prediction” of mass violence coming true in the workplace (RCMP was indicated) was hyperbole? The point I was trying to make.
Of course the “potential” is there and I would submit, everywhere. Nice segue there, but motherhood observations that most can agree on.
Yes I assumed you were referencing borderline cadets otherwise why would you as you stated be holding your collective breaths? Check your post there, it gives the message that you passed cadets that you and your colleagues personally would not have if you had the freedom to do so.
If you are indeed looking for the good in people, where are the mention of positive accomplishments, or are you of the mind that since you departed the RCMP, or indeed the past 20 years, there have been none?
I guess, depending on your outlook, the definition of progress is flexible. Since the day of the member on 19 years of stress and bad knee leave, to the attempt weed out the non hackers, there will always be some undesirable stories and situations. From the days of “suck it up” to mandatory critical incident debriefing, from no harassment investigation to mandatory investigations, from no RCMP psychological services to unlimited free services, from nothing to pensionable stress afflictions, you can miserly categorize or liberally categorize procedures today.
There will always be, in any large organization unhealthy situations and personal strife. My only observation there, is to not try to only present the negative disproportionately. Do not forget that there have been, and will no doubt continue to be, those that exploit the resources of an organization for their own personal benefit. However, you do not read to much of that issue here do you?
And JohnnyG, odds are nothing. 4 to 1? If you are beset on all sides by the tyranny of evil men, and the inequities of the selfish, you will find those odds quite welcoming. Just depends which locale you occupy. I was going to include a bullying reference but I think I will wait for another time.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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DT; please relax and take it easy the RCMP culture does not rest on your shoulders alone and since you are not the Commissioner of the RCMP, don’t sweat it, he’s paid to work it out not you.
I hope you don’t feel like we are mobbing you here all we are doing is expressing our own thoughts, experiences and opinions and please do not feel like it’s personal, it really isn’t. If we agree, we agree and if we don’t then except that point of view also.
All we are concerned about here is the safety of the officers, the public and the misguided assumption that the RCMP are perfect. We know by now to assume that the RCMP are perfect and do not need over haul is not based on facts but by information manipulated by pear pressure and through out of court settlements to appear spotless. So can change come to all areas of law enforcement? I believe so and if not monitored properly it can get quite messy like what happen in BC or in Ottawa.
The question remains can good cops suffer at the hands of bad ones and where can someone turn for help before it’s to late?
I say if you fall into a pit 10 or 20 ‘ deep and then expect the culture of the RCMP to come to your rescue and blow your nose, I think the RCMP should be forced like everyone else out there to review your actions and fire your sorry behind out the door.
If you mess up at Cadet training that’s one thing but if you mess up on the job that should be another and the two should be handled totally separate and one should not cancel the other.
Regarding what the Commissioner said; He is taking the leading role and doing what is right, so the question now will be, will the others below him up to the cadet in training do the same and stop hiding behind the organization, demanding immunity from all actions?
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Justice defined: The act of insuring no person is mistreated and guaranteeing that the person who needs the most help gets the most help. Justice is what love looks like in public.
“Like a crawling infant attempting to walk, all errors that are made by any person who seriously attempts to establish justice, are errors that can only be revealed through the process of the attempt.
The will to do justice is itself, the first thing that must happen before justice can be produced. The will to do justice itself, is the beginning of the end of error”.
The potential for extreme and deadly violence in the work place on mass is a real possibility. School violence will eventually translate into work place violence. This is already taking place. The potential for work place violence in the arena of policing should be addressed. Police officers already have the training and access to guns.
I will give you an example. Men think differently than women. The RCMP has a significant number of women in their ranks. If a man comes home beaten, assaulted, and harassed most women would be concerned, angry and demand justice. If a women comes home, after being assaulted, harassed, or sexually assaulted most men would be angry, concerned and demand justice as well. Some men however, unlike women, will strap their gun on and go looking for the guilty party. The women in the RCMP who have been assaulted, harassed, or sexually assaulted have fathers, brothers, husbands, and boyfriends. The potential for violence is there; especially when there is a perception that the RCMP member who committed the alleged offence gets a walk, or is promoted in some cases. The environment is being created for violence. That is only one example. There are others.
Especially when I reference your perennial sore point vis a vis allowing borderline cadets out when you were in a position of authority in training.
DT
No sore point here DT. Just clarification. You assume that the cadets that I am talking about were borderline. In most cases they were not. In fact they excelled and passed all aspects of training. Intuition and hunches are not grounds for dismissal. We all have intuition. A good street cop has heightened intrusion. Applying intusion to expelling cadets is not only against the core values of the RCMP but also violates the law. It becomes a shot step evolving into bigotry. As I stated previously about cadets that excel. They may be crazy but they are not stupid. You may apply this logic to the Tweed incident. Highly intelligent but extremely unhinged.
Still trying to find out who I am eh Calvin?
DT.
I know who you are. I have met you over and over again in my 36 years of policing. Even if I knew your name what difference would it make? Who cares? It would not change my life. No one is chasing you. I give my name because I feel that what is said should have credibility. Not everyone has an ulterior motive for everything that they do. Some people express an opinion or present a fact to seek justice.
Your specialty of a bit of praise followed by a “slam” to engender agreement from various quarters is due for an overhaul.
DT
Once again there is no ulterior motive.
I do praise your knowledge and skills.
I don’t agree with your condescending remarks.
simple approach here.. I tend to look for the good in people. Even the devil was a fallen angle. I express my opinions and I expect others to express theirs.
If we want to change people’s opinions we must first know their opinions.
Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting
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Deepthroat,
Listen, I never said it was everybody in the RCMP involved in this kind of harassment. But, I just think the problem is more widespread and far reaching than it has ever been.
Yeah, my perceptions are colored by my bad experiences, just as they are colored with good ones. Look, I used to think like you, until I became a target myself. I was a target because I was a hard worker, a high flyer, who didn’t take any crap or reduce myself to the mentality of the mob. I have also spoken to others out there and when you have been a target it is much easier to figure out whose complaints are legitimate or not.
I agree that the kind of problems we talk about exist in the broader society. You also seem to think that I am just speaking to be true from my own bad experiences. I have spoken to enough members and read enough stories in the newspapers that I know that my experience wasn’t just isolated to me. A few weeks ago I heard about how a long time friend of mine who has suffered a job related injury was hounded into retirement. Leave would be taken away from him at the last minute after all reservations were made. Despite a solid work history, a bully boss would ask him to start accounting for all his time on the job where there was no grounds and it was not required of anyone else.
I have never believed in Unions in the RCMP, but that has changed. Yes, this is going to become a shelter for the incompetent and the lazy, but when good people start getting screwed over, than it is time for a change.
At the end of the day, I am still very jaded. But, there are some big problems here. Look around you, there are four people against one arguing this point.
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Hard of hearing really said it well when he alluded to the fact that the targeted are “Good Cops trying to do their jobs”. From my experience this is 100% true.
The RCMP herd mentality starts in training where it is the average or slightly below average control the troop. Why? Because this is where the greatest numbers lie. The weak get picked on and attention is constantly drawn to them to take any negative attention away from members of the mob. The weak are easy targets and it doesn’t take much effort to try and make them look bad.
The strong members are the exception as they make the average members look bad. It is very hard to attack the strong on their performance, so the mob goes after their personality and suitability for the job. The goal is to make their lives so miserable and stressful that they either force them out or get them kicked out. Though mobbing can be perpetrated against anyone, it is the strong that get most brutally attacked.
The biggest misconception in this kind of discussion is that a targeted employee somehow deserves what happens to them. There is a bias that people are always fair and just, that targets somehow have it coming to them. Well, remember what Shakespeare said about the “Crowd”- it’s unpredictable and bloodthirsty.
In the RCMP supervisors don’t care and often join in themselves. In Jack Maple’s book “crime fighter” he alluded to supervisors not liking ambitious cops because it meant more work for them to review their work. But also, supervisors are human beings and take the route of least resistance in respect to mobbing. The easiest solution for them is to always get rid of the target, even if they know what is going on.
Workplace Mobbing like Rape is about power and control. Targets usually deserve what happens to them about as much as rape victims do… NOT AT ALL!
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Like CL, I agree that there is much bigger problems within the walls of the RCMP than the public will ever know. The force has “always” acted on complaints within the RCMP. They do this by letting the complaint lag for a year and then conclude it by saying; they can’t deal with the complaint because the time has expired.
I know of a few members who have retired in the last 6 years who have left the force after being on medical leave, because of the way that they have been treated within the work place after making complaints against senior officers. They include complaints for harassment and other more serious complaint that take over a year to investigate. Then to be told that there complaints are bogus and with no meaning. What I have always found funny in the end, is that when they go out and hire a lawyer and start court action for the harassment, there is in most cases, no in fact in all the cases that I know of, been an out of court settlement before the case gets to court. Of course these members are put on gag orders and cannot come forward with their results because of the payout. The action against the member who the complaint was made against, in a few cases that I know of, they members have been promoted into the Officers ranks (Things that make you go HHHHMMMMM )
Not doing anything in these cases not only affects the member involved but the members that are around the problems. If you see one person getting away with their actions without consequences, the mentality in the force is that “I can do it too”. I compare this to a parent who is an alcoholic and abuses there kid, more than likely when the kid grows up they will be an alcoholic or a child abuser too. This is what is going on in the RCMP.
I read a new cast the other day where someone suggested the Auditor General Sheila Fraser should be considered for the next commissioner of the RCMP. I hope that if she is considered, she has her current office do a full accounting of the force and how much money they spend on quieting the members who have been harassed within the walls of the force. There’s an old saying, you have to start somewhere, but in this case she might not want to go there.
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CL, I think DT is of need of some serious therapy because he is in denial.
I think reality has not set in yet that his beliefs in the RCMP is so off in left field that his bubble is about to explode and he will be in some serious trouble.
I think you and DT are probably the only members still on here.
I would shun to think it’s because this site is being monitored and some have been terminated for sharing their views or experiences, when it did not line up with the controller.
Keep at him and I’m quite sure someday he will have to come to reality like Commissioner Elliot did and admit there a HUGE problem in the ranks and file of the RCMP.
Let me leave you with this thought and I hope this gets on. What IF the officers who have been targeted by those RCMP members were really GOOD COPS trying to do their jobs.
Let me ask you a question CL and you to DT.
Who controls this planet?
1- the below average
2- the average
3- or the above average
Intelligent people and how do they do it?
The answer; the average
Now that you know the answer; Why and how do they do it?
answer; in groups
yes, in groups
They form groups of people bridging each other to the one cause and if a below average person comes in he is quickly pushed out as having NOTHING to offer the group so then why should we take this person in…. while the above average person being above average sees into the group and so be is a treat to the group of exposure and so he is shunned out or bullied out what ever you like to call it while the average group COULD be made of bad people.
Maybe this will help you to understand what is happening within the ranks of the RCMP and most places that pay good money… we are now electing lawyers that have defended the Hells Angels in the appeals courts.
Who is this Justice System working for, the bad guys?
Probably I’ll get booted off this site for this but it just needs to be said.
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Calvin is correct about how the force is more mean spirited than ever. I really feel the concept of I/Me has fueled much of this.
Members want to get ahead, but too many of them just don’t want to do the work to get there. They feel the need to drag others down to make themselves look good.
The kind of workplace Calvin describes is a unhealthy dysfunctional one, that has chewed up and spit out many members. .
The force likes to eat it’s own and I believe gets hungrier by the day.
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DT,
You and people who are like minded can only deal with statistics and definitions. When you have been approached by as many RCMP members as I have regarding legitimate abuse then you will realize there is pain, and anger behind those statistics and definitions. I always tell RCMP members that if you dig yourself a ten foot hole; I only have a nine foot rope. I have assisted members and will continue to do so if I feel that their complaints are legimate.
Perhaps you can describe your actions on RCMP Watch that you have taken to seek justice and correctness in policing.
It appears that you are afraid that I may point out truths regarding the FEELINGS of legimately wronged RCMP members.
I am also afraid. But we are afraid for different reasons. I am afraid that I will not be able to be all I can be in seeking justice and correctness in policing. You are afraid that I will.
I truly do respect your knowledge regarding these matters and your ability to express yourself on this site. (Minus the condescending comments. I guess that is just part of your schema.)
Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting
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There has been a great deal of media coverage regarding this tragic incident. There has also been a great deal of speculation and opinions as to what has happened here.
The public has to realize that the RCMP has a cultural of distancing themselves from individual members who they perceive should not be RCMP members. That could be mental illness, charged individuals, or members who complain, etc.
Over the years this has become much more mean spirited. The RCMP are making members sick (Major Depression, Adjustment Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder etc.) Often these conditions are the direct result of the actions of INDIVIDUAL RCMP members.
I made reference to what may happen if RCMP managers don’t get hold of what is going on.
See Below: In Part my quotes.
“JEFF SALLOT”
From Monday’s Globe and Mail Published on Sunday, Apr. 15, 2007 10:03PM EDT Last
RCMP’s crisis of confidence – The Globe and Mail
JEFF SALLOT. From Monday’s Globe and Mail Published on Sunday, Apr. 15, …. Calvin Lawrence, who retired last year after a 36-year police career, …
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/eceRedirect?articleId=754035
“I predict mass violence in the workplace. RCMP members are already trying to harm themselves right now. It is only a matter of time before they turn their guns on others”.
The circumstances are different but the result of my prediction was true.
When an RCMP member shows up at the commissioner’s residence with his mother, a note, and cookies, it is not a great leap to realize that this person is desperately crying for help.
The way of thinking is ;that if the RCMP waits long enough he/she will just go away.
Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting
Hot debate. What do you think?
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