(Montreal Gazette) – Public opinion of the RCMP continues to decline in the wake of the federal police force’s latest fiasco, the results of a new poll suggest.
Last month, several senior Mounties filed complaints to the Prime Minister’s Office accusing William Elliott -the first civilian appointed to head the RCMP -of being verbally abusive, insulting and arrogant.
The breach within the top ranks of the RCMP has, once again, raised the question of whether Prime Minister Stephen Harper made the right choice when tasking a civilian with reforming the institution and restoring confidence in its upper ranks.
Canadians are split on the question of whether Elliott was the right choice, with 56 per cent saying they remain in favour of Harper’s choice, according to the results of the Ipsos Reid poll conducted for Canada. com. After three years on the job, 51 per cent of respondents said the former senior bureaucrat should keep his position.
“Opinions on his appointment, and whether he should stay or not, seem to be based around the effectiveness of his ability to do the job,” said John Wright, senior vice-president with Ipsos Reid.
Only 12 per cent of respondents said they felt matters were improving within the force. About one-quarter said matters were becoming worse, while 65 per cent said they noticed no change since Elliott took over in July 2007.
The online poll, conducted July 30-Aug. 4 among 1,615 adults, has a margin of error of 2.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
“I NEVER asked them to call me back so your defence that it is my fault just doesn’t fly.”
I opined that they should have called back: “…because it should have been addressed…” but the fact that you do not know what if anything was done, does not mean nothing was. The fact your “testimony” or recording was not needed means little. Besides nothing getting done, something may have, officer visit, verbal warnings, charges (guilty pleas) inability to obtain warrants for telephone information etc., could have all actually transpired, correct? You just don’t know and assume the worst. Has it happened since?
By playing devils advocate, you assume I am blaming you for what? You should take from the dialogue that all could not be what it appears, but because you are predisposed to the negative, that’s where you dwell. One should be fully informed before making assumptions that are not supported. Calling back is not begging or babysitting, it is your right and albeit your obligation if you wish to be part of the solution.
You also never clarified if the caller was an RCMP officer or a civilian complaint taker. Both employees, different classification.
You obviously have an abysmal opinion of the policing in your area fueled by retired officers (how many was that again?) with decades of service disparaging some place they have worked for, for decades. Wonder why they would stay so long? Perhaps it was the bureaucracy and office gong shows that were the problem and not the crime fighting aspect?
That aside what have you done, (already asked and ignored question) to address the situation in the area in which you live. Participated in any consultative groups? Registered any concerns? Contacted the CPC? Spoken with the Officer in charge? My guess, you have not. The question is why not? Unless you have been informed that the RCMP service in your areas is being terminated next week and the new boys are taking over, what are your options? Part of the problem or solution?
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So I take it from your ignoring the questions that after your initial call to the complaint taker you decided not to hold anyone accountable by ignoring the non action on your complaint. You did not speak with a supervisor, call the Officer in Charge, or the CPC.
Although you should not have to (after the registering of the initial complaint), because it should have been addressed, the fact that you left it alone suggests you were not that concerned. A year is not too long, as there is no statute of limitations on complaints against the RCMP. The complaint process is designed to improve service delivery. Part of the solution remember? “The CPC’s goal is to promote excellence in policing through accountability.”
http://www.cpc-cpp.gc.ca/wwa/aus_notre-eng.aspx
If you feel aggrieved:
Complaints can be made:
■By completing the online complaint form available on the CPC’s website
■By telephone:
From anywhere in Canada: 1-800-665-6878
TTY: 1-866-432-5837
■By completing the printable version of the Complaint Form in PDF [54Kb] and sending it via:
■Fax: 604-501-4095 Or
■Mail:
National Intake Office
7337 137 Street
Suite 102
Surrey, British Columbia V3W 1A4
If nothing else you, if you are interested, you can request a copy of the file through FOI and see what if anything was done. If you take time to read some of the corrections made one of the most often addressed is the complainant was not notified of actions taken. For all you know they could have warned the offender or even charged the person. But it is easier to just sit back and …
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And while we are at it D, what did the FOI request reveal on your complaint? And what were the results of your public complaint?
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“The reason I don’t support the RCMP now is I have experienced when they were good.” When was that? Can I finally get a time? Sad state of affairs to think that not one of the 16,000+ members of the RCMP do not have your support. Even the ones decorated for bravery or ones who have given their life to the organization with distinction.
I still trust physicians, even though one butchered a relative a few years ago. I changed dentists two years ago due to incompetence. Still go to one though, and trust her. Society has changed in the past 30 years, and not all of the change is good. You have to embrace what is good and from your corner of the world attempt to make it a better place. JohnnyG speaks regularly about the culture of entitlement. And with good reason. Just look at any facet of society and you will find it, not just in the RCMP. Looking for foibles? The RCMP has them just as the Municipal and Provincial forces. We have discussed before the number of public complaints of the major forces in Canada, and noted the figures are more complaints against others than the RCMP, but none the less, they are there.
In your lack of trust, you reflect one trend in society that is one of entitlement. One of negativity first, become part of the negative dialogue second, and probably not even positive involvement a distant last. Tried serving on one of the consultation committees set up by the RCMP? Probably not. Given input to police boards or police liaison committees, probably not. Appeared before council, probably not.
Had a bad experience? Maybe. Listened to a lot of negative talk? Absolutely. If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. Deal with, and demand that the unsuitable be dealt with summarily and harshly if you will, but do not disrespect the hard working people who deserve respect and support. Remember the system is what society has made it thus far. Another trend in society, out with the bathwater and the baby because the sky is falling. Don’t be opening the window automatically.
Good pictures JohhnyG, don’t forget this one:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2007/03/03/mayerthorpe.html
Or this one:
http://www.rcmpgraves.com/index.html
Perhaps the families have your support D?
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DT is right that sometimes the “Good ol day’s” weren’t really that good. Once upon a time the pay was really bad, no overtime and members were expected to come in on the off time to answer the phones.
Years ago members still got themselves in trouble with the things they did when they drank too much.
But, D I do get where you are coming from. It is impossible to always come up with facts and figures to quantify everything, but if you speak to enough people you get a real sense that people perceptions of the outfit have changed.
A couple of decades ago, retired members used to support the force. In recent years that is no longer the case and a lot of them I have talked to feel that if a person is interested in policing to go municipal. Is the grass greener on the other side? Maybe or maybe not. But, the satisfaction just isn’t there. This is before the media hoopla as well.
I do agree with DT that the working conditions have improved, but back when they weren’t one really had to be dedicated to stay on and that’s what you more often got.
The Hiring used to be different. There was a mold and you had to fit it. With all this diversity nonsense it is the perfect excuse to hire people that should never be given the chance to begin with.
Training was also more rigid. You too a lot more crap and anyone who was lazy or a trouble maker were more likely weeded out. Anyone else who didn’t have their heart in it would leave.
These are reasons why I think the RCMP doesn’t produce the same kind of cops they used to in the 60’s and 70’s. Some of it pertains to the organization and some of it to modern culture, which is beyond anyone’s control.
-The hiring process is too based on political correctness.
-The current basic training was developed by a psychologists and carpet cops. Depot has a mind strategy, but no heart strategy. A culture of entitlement is often instilled.
-Today has a really lousy promotion system, which foster’s more I/ME.
-Community policing is symbolized than practiced. Though many members have the armed social worker routine down and go through the motions of making all the right grunts and noises, they fall short on many things. The are less likely to live in the armpit town they are posted in, preferring to commute from larger towns and cities. Some today will get involved with fund raising as a “community project” so they have something to talk about on their promotional interview, the old guard would get involved with things where they could better steer kids off the street by getting involved in minor sports.
-I believe the demilitarized training along with the new corporate adult learning atmosphere doesn’t do enough to strip away the selfish ways of todays society and build them into something better.
- I believe the deportment of years ago was more conducive to getting respect. The below picture is was what a Mountie looked like years ago. Perfect length hairline. Look at the guy’s posture and how he carries himself. He looks really professional and I really think this is more conducive to commanding respect. http://www.tradition-orale.ca/img/photos/grandes/1515-Photo-RCMP_g.jpg
This is what they look like today, and often with the pockets undone, pen’s and notebooks hanging out of them and the hat off. http://www.opinion250.com/images/canadagold%20005.jpg
I really think we have gotten too far away from the “Adam 12″ look and professionalism that Calvin describes.
I think I get where you are coming from D. I think you long for the guy in the first photo.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Unfortunately your era quotes do not point to any one time in the RCMP. All of the noted deflections can be attributed to the organization at some part in the past 40 years. The reason you cannot point to any one decade is that the RCMP never has been perfect and like any other organization never will be. It is made up of people and at this point in time a great deal of young people.
“It was a era when they actually knew the law, upheld the law and never tried to make law.” Really? And how are they trying to make law?
“It was a era when should they have done something wrong they took their punishment and learned from their mistake.” Some of the punishments, not reported to the public as per policy today, include immediate transfers to an extremely isolated or rough posting regardless of family situation. Summarily being dismissed without due process, contrary to the law today. Being forced to wash vehicles and offices on days off without compensation. Being tasked to work for weeks at a time without regular time off. Is this the era that you pine for?
“It was a era when allegations of a crime were actually investigated, not just given a file number with no further results” Perhaps you refer to Surrey BC where most break and enters are not given much investigative time? Perhaps because they are over 100 personnel short of what they should be, and the scale of investigative time is apportioned to the most serious of offenses?
“It was a era when it was a career not a job” If you read some of the human resource studies in the past 10 years you will note that the prognostication is that most people will have more than one job in their lifetime. Its a societal trend.
“It was a era when they worked with other police forces to solve crime.” Up until a few decades ago most city police forces had no jurisdiction outside the city limits. That was changed to allow for joint operations. Since then innumerable joint forces operations have and continue to thrive across the country.
:It was a era when mounties took pride in their work and worked long and rarely got themselves into trouble, unlike the continuous stories of the current state of the RCMP.” You give the dedicated men and women of today the proverbial middle finger with that statement. Very disrespectful. In your dream era, the RCMP was a closed shop and transferred the problem children without fanfare or media release. Ask your old time sources about the “funny pages” where, out of the public eye the RCMP disciplined its members and reported it only internally.
“It was a era when a spokesperson wasn’t needed to try to spin every story.” A necessary evil in today’s information bite society. Read the Braidwood report if you think they tried to spin or cover up. Every camera wants information at the smallest of events. Not everybody is a Lloyd Robertson on camera.
“. It was a era when the far greater majority of people respected them because they earned and deserved your respect.” That still happens today, despite the bleating of the news media and their latest whipping boy. But that does not make news does it?
“It was a era when they took the best they could find, without hiring the politically correct” Is that the time when the did not hire women? Or is it the time mentioned by Calvin in the 50’s when they preferred not to hire black people? I will however agree the government has meddled too much with the PC hiring. but to say it is totally unfair is just that, unfair.
“It was a era when they called a “spade a spade”. Not sure what you mean there. Its only in recent years that the RCMP say anything. they always shied from the media and a press release was not even in their lexicon.
“It was a era when they wouldn’t have botched the Air India investigation.” Really? And who destroyed the recorded evidence of complicity?
Hopefully you get the idea here D. Did you figure out the “era” of the bomber or do you conveniently ignore that era?
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Please provide me with a date or even a decade when you purport that the RCMP organization ended as a “great police force”.
If you are relying on “The online poll, conducted July 30-Aug. 4 among 1,615 adults, has a margin of error of 2.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.” What in the reported results lead you to your conclusion?
See if you can tell me what “era” a member of the RCMP was convicted of setting a bomb at a CEO’s residence, at the behest of Organized Crime. Was this the time or did you have some other “era” in mind?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“Anytime some agency gets in a jam they say they poll the people but I wonder which ones they poll because I never get a call. ” Are you suggesting the poll was conducted by the RCMP? I do not read who conducted it, but I am sure its not the RCMP. Does that become an issue for you if it is not? Your questions are best directed at the polling group.
And in case you have not noted most polls taken after an event with national reporting lines usually trend toward the event either positive or negative, and do not reflect a true picture but one jaded by the positive or negative event.
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Anytime some agency gets in a jam they say they poll the people but I wonder which ones they poll because I never get a call.
19 out of 20 is a pretty good odds but I say it’s 20 times out of 20 when it comes to swaying the people’s minds.
It’s almost like someone who is talking and you change the conversation, I think there’s allot of this happening in leadership instead of dealing with the issues.
Why can’t it be 19 out of 20 times 95% to 5% against or for the yes side, no it’s always border line in favor for the agency and they use an independent agency to do the study.
Will it be this way to with the investigations into serious cases within the ranks and files?
Will it be 19 out of 20 times they will be right and cleared?
Fix the problems…
The online poll, was conducted in 2010 among Canadian adults, has a margin of error of 2.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
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“…a margin of error of 2.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.” In other words it could be out by as much as 12.5%. Why do they always phrase it that way? Perhaps to make it look more appealing as an accurate indicator? And where are the figures to support the headline? What happened to a question like: do you have more or less faith in the RCMP today than last year? That you could almost get a handle on 2.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
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I do not agree with the poll just because RCMP members are being dealt with. Maybe not as harsh as the public is and I don’t quite understand why the difference but at least there is some forward movement with the retirements and the charges.
If I was Commissioner Elliot and I heard of how the G-20 was handled by the top police force in Canada, I would be some upset as well.
Then to add the report that a senior RCMP member had brought a prostitute to his room and important files and a laptop had been taken from the room, after he fell asleep, I would be real, real mad and just maybe his reaction or subsequent action against the top official who was involved in the G-20 made the others react.
It’s a no brainer, you can’t hold the Toronto Police Force and the Ontario Provincial Police responsible for what went wrong at the G-20 because the RCMP are responsible for all the airports, city ports and federal security in this country. I think if they are hiding behind these provincial police forces it just shows really how bad it’s gotten.
All Commissioner Elliot has to do is his job and fire the lot and run the force the way it should be run, with integrity upholding justice and restoring dignity to the rest of the force and the good officers will be at peace with his leadership and the public as well.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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