Kady O’Malley (CBC Inside Politics Blog)
… especially, it seems, when that man is William Elliott, off-and-on-again embattled civilian commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
How else, really, can one explain why a CBC.ca correspondent sent along a pointer to the European Union
Police Mission in Afghanistan website, and drew our attention to the following photo of Elliott, in full formal Mountie apparel, and sporting what looks very much like a sidearm to boot?
Police Mission in Afghanistan website, and drew our attention to the following photo of Elliott, in full formal Mountie apparel, and sporting what looks very much like a sidearm to boot?
Now, it’s fair to say that, on first spotting this picture, some of us were a wee bit nonplussed. After all, Elliott is, as noted above, a civilian, not a career police officer. What, we wondered, was with the blues? And the fruit salad? And, for that matter, the gun — particularly when a quick Google Image search revealed that this seems to be the first time that he has appeared in public wearing work dress.
Here’s what we heard back from RCMP senior media relations officer Greg Cox:
The Commissioner of the RCMP has peace officer status and is entitled towear the RCMP uniform and, subject to the appropriate training, isauthorized to carry a firearm by virtue of this designation. He hasgenerally chosen not to do so in fulfilling his duties domestically andinternationally.
Both his trips to Afghanistan were exceptions to this practice. On theadvice of the then-Senior Deputy Commissioner and the then-CanadianPolice Commander in Afghanistan, the Commissioner wore the operationalRCMP uniform, carried a sidearm and on occasion wore body armor.
The Commissioner was provided with Firearms training adapted to theoperational requirements of his travel to Afghanistan. This included thesame course of fire as all regular members of the RCMP but did notinclude specific training on other use of force options for example,pepper spray or asp baton.
While he traveled throughout Afghanistan to meet with RCMP personneland a wide range of government and other representatives, theCommissioner wore a service pistol when the circumstances warrantedbeing armed for personal protection. These are the same parameters inplace for all police officers working in or visiting Afghanistan.
To which, it seems, we can only add the following: “Asp baton?”
Auxillary do not wear the stripe, they wear blue pants without stripes. They do not wear firearms.
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Yeah, I just looked into it. You’re right about the stripe and auxillaries. They did for years though. Can’t tell if Elliot is wearing it. I hope he isn’t.
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“As far as the Tahmourpour cases goes, I would like to learn more details about it before “I take a strong position one way or another”
JG
He (Tahmourpour) was at Depot as a cadet when I was a facilitator. I had no interaction with him when I was there. I did testify at his Human Rights hearing.
My testimony in part consisted of being called upon by Insp. Keith Clarke, Applied Police Sciences, and Supt. Harper Boucher, Officer in charge of Depot at the time. I was called upon to resolve racial conflicts that was caused by the actions of some facilitators involving the abuse of cadets.
The alleged abuse of cadets in one case, also involved an RCMP Inspector who came to Depot to interview a black cadet in 2000. The verbal interaction between the visiting RCMP Inspector and the cadet resulted in a human rights complaint and a tribunal being ordered.
There were facilitators who disregarded RCMP policies and procedures. The rules are clear regarding the assessment of a cadet to become a member of the RCMP. The problem arises when harassment and bullying are used to terminate a cadet that is deemed to be unsuitable. That approaches causes hard feeling. Court action is taken by the cadet. The emotional and financial cost is substantial.
The policies were clear when cadets harassed facilitators or other cadets. RCMP harassment policies were presented to cadets the first week that they arrived at Depot.
What was not envisioned was that facilitators would harass cadets. Some cadets were devastated because what they were being told was not being practiced by a few facilitators.
It is one thing not to help someone who is drowning anyway, but it something else to push their head underwater.
JG
A facilitator does the best he/she can to help a cadet. After that, the cadet then has to carry his/her own water! Your above statement sums it up exactly.
Calvin Lawrence
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I know of cases where facilitators have facilitated harassment against certain cadets. They joined the lynch mob so to speak.
They would be discussing with cadets how they were going to get rid of so and so. The day this individual was injured and sent home the facilitator was grinning like a Chessire Cat. Highly unprofessional, inappropriate and unethical if you ask me.
Calvin, I also believe that too many facilitators don’t know what to look for when it comes to workplace mobbing and too often write it off as a personality conflict or just professional jealousy. When the angry mob comes to them they take what they have to say at face value and don’t interevene. This isn’t healthy in any workplace, let alone people that are learning the proper values of the new org they are joining.
When harassment is uncovered it, it gets buried. The RCMP are more afraid of a lawsuit than dealing with a lazy, dishonest, troublemaking industrial psychopaths that will be the rotten apples that will ruin every barrell. I would rather have a guy like Mr. Tahmourpour join and have to be chained to a desk at HQ, than to have these POS unleashed onto the street and the public.
I also think members of certain minority groups do get a hard time. It is not so much for racial reasons, but it is much harder for them to fit in. You are far better off being an incompetent fitting into the group dynamic, than a high flyer that doesn’t.
I once witnessed a situation where someone got attacked because they didn’t fit in. Yes, they didn’t necessarily belong in this occupation but there were less competent people on the attack and being protected by the group ring leaders.
Another issue that arises from time to time is accidents in training particularly cadets who injure other cadets in PDT. If the injured party was a mobbing target than they give the person who injured them a medal, if the injured party was in the inner circle of the mob, than the person who injured them gets flung up on the cross. Both are examples of a dysfuntion in any group, but things few have the courage to actively deal with.
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“I think there is a distinct difference in hiring someone for just any gov’t position than hiring for the RCMP.. You are to hire people that are capable of doing the job which includes carrying and the use of firearms.”
“The RCMP have turned down countless people they believe are not fit, have ALL of them hired a lawyer??”
I am not sure if you are being intentionally obtuse or not with those statements. The RCMP for years, possibly during your vision of the glory years,had certain physical attributes required. Not any more. Why? Because of case law from various actions that have been utilized to ensure the persons who do not have these attributes can be a policeman too. Can be a firefighter too. Ad naseum. The benchmarks are not set at the highest standard that they could be for political reasons. That is why I endorse separate employer status away from government hiring dictates.
And when already employed by the RCMP: “45.18 (1) Any officer may be recommended for discharge or demotion and any other member may be discharged or demoted on the ground, in this Part referred to as the “ground of unsuitability”, that the officer or member has repeatedly failed to perform the officer’s or member’s duties under this Act in a manner fitted to the requirements of the officer’s or member’s position, notwithstanding that the officer or member has been given reasonable assistance, guidance and supervision in an attempt to improve the performance of those duties.”
Key words, repeatedly and reasonable assistance and guidance, not according to you or I but a court.
“It is not anyone’s God given right to any job they choose.” Au contraire. Most recent example in the Federal Court:
1. Tahmourpour v. Canada (Minister of National Revenue), 1998 CanLII 8544 (F.C.)
2. Tahmourpour v. Canada (Solicitor General), 2004 FC 585 (CanLII)
3. Royal Canadian Mounted Police v. Tahmourpour, 2009 FC 1009 (CanLII)
You should poll your retired sources and see if are in favor of summary dismissal by a Commissioned Officer for the RCMP’s perception of a misdeed.
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As far as the Tahmourpour cases goes, I would like to learn more details about it before “I take a stong position one way or another.
As far as I have been able to find out the official reason he was expelled was for weaknesses in communication skills, group participation, and ability to handle stress, among other things.”
If someone is truly useless in Depot they usually flunk out for not shooting straight enough, screwing up scenario’s, poor driving or failing the APS midterm exam. If you screw up twice in a row in any of these compentencies, they get a one way ticket home. With that said, there are plenty who screw up every time the first time and are now gracing us on the streets.
But, that wasn’t why Mr. Tahmourpour was dismissed. It was for subjective things. If he were being legitimately harassed, he would have been judged far more harshly, this would unfairly affect his stress levels. This would affect his overall performance. This would affect any desire he had for group participation. He would have been set up to fail.
It is one thing not to help someone who is drowning anyway, but it something else to push their head underwater.
I would be really to take a look at this under a microscope and see if he was making excuses.
But, he hasn’t got the key’s to the kingdom yet as he still has to get through training. If he is as bad as they say he is, than there is a very good chance he won’t make it the second time.
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Too bad you don’t respect him, so I guess you just respect his opinion then? You keep quoting the people you say you do not respect, and expect us to buy into their theorems. Why would we believe information from persons whom you do not even respect?
“Like any occupation, always hire the best person for the job regardless of race, creed or color.” Nice sentiment, but in today’s society, it is your God given right to do any job you chose, and if you do not get hired or get fired, a battery of lawyers will see to it that it is reversed in your favor. Not only in the RCMP, but the government and pretty well every other profession. It is what it is, and it is what we have made it as a society. By insisting the RCMP have control over its budget, hiring, firing, etc., we take a step in the right direction.
In this milieu, our only option is to utilize the systems in place to hold people accountable and ensure best practices.
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Do you really think the deciding factor for the purchase of replacement weapons was the capability, operation, and ease of use?
Treasury board money, lowest bid, best deal on returning weapons. Its the government remember?
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Yes, the 9mm they issue requires a strong and steady squeeze. This is to make it less likely the trigger will get accidentally pulled. With some of the people that get hired, this is a concern.
In most instances the Tribal’s that train in Regina have the Glocks. They are glad to have em!
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I find it very easy to believe these people stunk and most likely never dry fire.
Depot is full of cadets who should not be there. The kind of people that you instantly say WTF???? when you meet them. Some of them are so frail and skinny that they don’t make a Serge small enough to fit them. They have to have one custom made. People that have absolutely no common sense or street smarts. There are many cadets that cry after shooting the 12 gage or before they have to do it again. Not to offend Calvin, I will refrain from denoting gender. Hint, Hint
If these people can’t do this in a range at a paper target, how are they going to do it when they have to point it at a person and shoot? I know a person who the member turned her shotgun over to, (who was a civilian) on the side of the road to euthanize a deer.
The system will hire and molly coddle these types of recruits… even lazy troublemakers who have zero pride in the force get a free pass. But, God help you if ever criticize why these people are part of the Org or the special programs that got them there. There are very few people in the force you can be candid with anymore and you will get your back stabbed quicker than you can say Bill Elliot!
The force would rather have someone politically correct and useless than a good policeman that tells it like it is. This problem didn’t start over night and it really started to take off in the 1980’s when hiring a good LEO became secondary.
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You either missed or did not feel compelled to comment on the message this debacle sends to the organization as a whole. Perhaps you have heard of the adage: “do as I say, not as I do.”
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I accept your point on the merit of hypocracy. But, if you are looking for hypocracy in the RCMP this is the tip of the iceberg. Did anyone really expect more than this from a political hack? To be disappointed by this, one would have had to had some high expectations.
Personally, I am more worried about the clowns coming in the ground floor that deal directly with the Canadian public, not a desk jockey parachuting into the top floor and wearing a masquerade outfit while overseas.
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I know why auxillary’s wear the work uniform, and I have nothing against it. My point about the uniform it isn’t like Elliot is wearing a red serge. He is wearing a work uniform that others who haven’t went through full RCMP training wear, and he isn’t doing it every day or on the Canadian streets.
I don’t think my example of weapons care was feeble or moot. If it is fused together with rust, obviously the member doesn’t care, and this didn’t happen overnight either. I was always taught to dry fire to maintain proficiency. I don’t imagine this would be the person you would want beside you in a gun battle either.
As far as standing behind him goes and venturing into the hypothetical- in an ambush situation part of his protectors would fight and part of them would try to wisk him away. If you did end up in the situation you described, there are a hell of a lot of members out there it would probably be just as safe to stand behind as welll.
I am not totally agreeing with what he did here or putting his work record up on a pedestal. But, a mountain is being made of a molehill here and detracts away from the big issues that need more attention- like the actual job he is doing.
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There is no fruit discrepancy here. It makes no difference what his purpose, or where he is, he is not trained properly in its use, regardless of the other obligations required of a police officer. If I was with him in the ambush (needless and purposeless hyperbole though it is) he is the one I would stand behind so I would not get wounded by a rank amateur under fire. A comparison of weapons care by some is a feeble and moot exercise.
You either missed or did not feel compelled to comment on the message this debacle sends to the organization as a whole. Perhaps you have heard of the adage: “do as I say, not as I do.”
Cannot comment on the use of a yellow stripe by the Chaplains of the RCMP because I have never observed one with any uniform. Part of the issues with uniform being worn by the auxiliaries is a liability issue. Similar to those when their weapons were taken away in the Province of BC a number of years ago.
As far as judging the man on his actions so far, the tally is not impressive. You should contact the NCO in The Richmond BC office for his present views and how much has changed for him. Or you could contact the senior command at Fort McMurray Alberta for their comments following his morning briefing appearance I have alluded to before. The Provincial Government of Alberta has done far more for the officers of the RCMP than Elliot. If you are a serving officer in the RCMP perhaps you would like to share how much better your conditions are since he took the office of the Commissioner, or at least a summary of his accomplishments thus far.
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Correction. I forgot to say I have “seen” the pistols NOT “I have the pistols.”
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You are comparing apples to oranges here. He is not wearing that gun in the same capacity that a member would on the streets. It isn’t there to protect other people. Whether one likes political hacks or not, I would not want to see the man get kidnapped or be defenseless should he be ambushed.
Yes, I would have liked to have seen him have more formal training, but he couldn’t be any worse than many people in the outfit that got lucky on their final qualification after hours of remedial. If there is a wrong message being sent it is hiring the likes of these people. I have the pistols of members in coastal area’s on boats that don’t oil them and the parts get fused together with rust. How safe are they?
As far as the uniforms go, Chaplin’s wear the uniform (with a priest collar). No one questions them. When is it Auxilliary’s earned the right to wear the calvary stripe on the blues? When did chaplains earn the right to wear the calvary stripe? Remember when that got taken away when someone screwed up? An Auxillary or Chaplin never had to undergo that indignity of looking like a dork wearing sneakers in uniform.
If Auxillary’s and Chaplins get to wear it, you would think Elliot’s 3 years on the job and being a commissioner would count for something… Lets not forget about the carpet cop’s who never worked one day on the street, who climbed the ladder at HQ and probably haven’t fired a gun in years. I would be curious to know how much firearms training they really do. I bet it isn’t much. But nobody would say anything if it were them who were armed.
I agree having him as a commissioner is a step in the wrong direction. I couldn’t agree more that thinks have to be depoliticized. But, lets at least be fair to the guy while he attempts to do this difficult and thankless job. Sometimes I feel that no matter what the guy does, people are always going to try and cut him off at the knees because he isn’t part of the club… Lets judge the guy on the job he does, not where he came from.
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Try as you will, I remain unconvinced of the wisdom in giving a person a firearm without sufficient training. He has been on the “job” for 3 years and has not seen fit to even grace an RCMP range for regular training. Unacceptable, and sends the wrong message to the organization. Even the vilified former Commissioner ran the physical requirement test at his advanced age. This is part of the problem with the senior area of command. The rank and file will fall in line and do as they are told but the upper echelons make policy up as they go and as they feel expedient.
Calvin sums it up quite well with “Carrying a firearm without the other tools and training is not acceptable. It is a short cut. When police officers take shot (sic) cuts bad things happen.”
Auxiliaries receive a large amount of training to assist regular members in the discharge of their duties. This man is a civilian head of a police organization and a Deputy Minister in the government. It would have done him good to go through Depot training, perhaps less the physicals due to his age, to give him the rudiments of the job the organization faces.
He has ridden along with bona fide members of the RCMP in Richmond BC shortly after being named. It would be interesting to speak with the NCO that he rode with at this juncture. How has his lot improved since the man took over?
Your military analogy is flawed.
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I see Calvin’s point regarding the firearms. But, when you are over there it is a warzone, I don’t believe the same rules apply. Even if he did a bunch of scenario’s in the FATS simulator and lots of PDT classes, it wouldn’t make any difference because there is a communication barrier, not to mention that you can’t negotiate with fanatics. One could even argue that police training is counter productive when dealing with terrorists. There is a reason the British SAS deals with terrorists in Britain and not Scotland Yard. There is a reason JTF 2 protects Parliament hill against terrorists and not the force anymore…
Looking at this from a military perspective, EVERY CF soldier is armed with a automatic weapon from the “Brass” to the cooks in the field kitchen and with a lot more firepower than Elliot is wearing on his hip. Compared to a .50 caliber machine gun that some of the soldier’s are using, a 9mm is a pea shooter.
Soldiers aren’t taught scenario based training and nobody complains about them being armed. They are trained to neutralize the threat. End of story. Remember I said the cooks had automatic guns? Well, there is a reason they are not in the infantry… Kinda like some of the people who show up at HQ…
As someone who has done VIP protection on exercises in the CF, I can tell you that he is being well protected. That gun is there in case his protectors get wiped out and is a last resort. By that time scenario’s aren’t what counts, it is going to boil down to common sense.
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The wearing of the RCMP uniform by Comm. Elliott is a debate that will not cost lives.
The carrying of a loaded firearm will. Did he have to pass the Shoot don’t shoot” scenarios on the Firearms Training system?
When a cadet receives his firearm and enters the world of policing he/she is not a seasoned decision making police officer. It takes experience.
They are saying that this is a very dangerous area.
When you get your driver’s licence it does not mean you are a good driver. You would not drive in the Ind. 500 the next day. Why would you give some one a gun who qualified and send him to a war zone the next day?
After reading the photo article some of my questions were answered in my first comment.
Carrying a firearm without the other tools and training is not acceptable. It is a short cut. When police officers take shot cuts bad things happen.
Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting
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I don’t see the big deal with this one. Auxillary constables don’t complete Depot and wear the same uniform. I can see how this made operational sense… Even for a civillian.
But, God help him if he ever wears red.
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Auxiliary Constables do undergo mandatory IMIM training before they are ever sworn in and able to wear a uniform.
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How have Auxilliary constables earned the right to wear the calvary stripe?
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