So the appearance of a few major issues and the attendant scurrying and hand wringing of the predictables is nothing new.

Do you Like or Dislike the above comment: 0  1

I am hoping this will be done and that tghe public will not once again be deceived by this government as it has with previous governments in creating just another powerless department while letting the RCMP opereate unsupervised in criminal activities leading us to believe we are in a police state instead in a free system of justice and equality for all. It seems when it comes to the police they are inocent while the public are not in most of these cases handled by them.

Its time for real change and its no longer time for the bandade approach or we will be in a worst mess later.

Hot debate. What do you think? 5  4

I am going to side with Deepthroat and not Calvin on this one.

I don’t think scenario based abuse is the same as drill. Yes, the actors test your skills in how to use levels of force and decisions making. But, the actors don’t have the same level of hostility a drill corporal can. When a actor is giving you a hard time it doesn’t put you under the same level of duress that your supervisor does when they are standing there peeling you out.

Believe me, compared to the drill staff, the actors are considered a joke in Depot.

Also there is something that is being missed in this debate in that with a good drill program it really sharpens your mind. When the drill staff tears you down and builds you back up again, you have much clearer thinking, quicker reaction, and pay attention to detail. And yes, it also greatly improves how you handle the stress and gives you the confidence you need to do the job. All this helps to instill a sense of pride. That is what has always made the difference in the past.

Lets remember a good drill Corp. doesn’t have to swear to put the fear of God into a cadet. The demeanor of the Corporal has more to do with what the cadet gets out of it as opposed to swearing. If a swear word slips out though, it shouldn’t be thought of as the end of the world.

Do you Like or Dislike the above comment: 2  1

Most complaints presently are overreactions to insulting behaviour by the public. The term thin skinned comes to the fore.
DT

I agree that drill is a needed and important part of RCMP training. The place to see if recruits are thin skinned as you put it, is not drill.

Lets break it down. The cadet is standing there being called names, being yelled at by the drill instructor. The cadet cannot respond. He must stand at attention and take the abuse.

The best way to test the cadet is in the reality based training. This is where they bring in actors and the cadet has to make decisions and respond to the pretend citizen’s verbal abuse. The cadet must respond to the person (Verbal Intervention). The cadet must continuously conduct a threat assessment while being verbally abused. The cadet may have to make an arrest. If the cadet survives the extreme verbal abuse then it is more realistic to assume the cadet will react the same in public. In the debriefing a good and seasoned facilitator will give suggestions on how to respond to the verbal abuse and ways to control his/her emotions.

Think about it. The same insults coming from drill and from an actor during a reality based scenario; which would be more effective in testing the cadet’s self discipline and teaching the cadet?

Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting

Do you Like or Dislike the above comment: 3  2

Do you Like or Dislike the above comment: 2  2

Unfortunately when some persons are raised under that criteria, they tend to feel slighted when called a name, refused a demand, etc. The young starry eyed recruit at depot gets a rude awakening when somebody’s voice is raised and their competence is called into question by a drill Cpl. (Sgt i/c drill rarely appears). If the vernacular makes a cameo appearance, this is unacceptable?

“The recruit will become a police officer. He/She will be called the four letter word on the street. When the four letter words start coming the officer is in a position of authority and is expected to be professional. If not, thanks for coming and your gone. ”

Not so. IF there is a complaint, they will hardly be dismissed. That is reality. The RCMP apologizes, counsels the officer and moves on. Most complaints presently are overreactions to insulting behavior by the public. The term thin skinned comes to the fore.

Some people get quite agitated when their sexual orientation or their gender, lineage, etc, is called into question in any situation, and rightly so. However, they cannot afford to as a police officer. They have to maintain their composure and discharge their responsibilities in a professional manner. You may be able to just lecture a number of people about this occurrence in police work, however, a little reality as provided by drill is eminently more instructive. 32 persons attempting to perform some intricate maneuvers, some individuals unable to concentrate, and someone being distracting by decibel heavy voice and demeanor has its benefits. The fact that the drill component in RCMP training has seen a resurgence in recent years is instructive.

You can tell an individual in the greatest of detail how to perform a task, and handle the effects of details, however, this does not really give them the practice needed to actually perform the task.

Now people, we just want to prepare you for the fact that Mr. Criminal may just call your parentage into question while you try and do your job, and beware they may use bad words. Work through it people and get on with the job at hand. And while we are at it, you may see some blood at an accident scene.

The recruits are given lots of practice to drive a vehicle, physically handle some unruly person, write reports, and use a weapon and deadly force against violent individuals. So where is the practice of getting used to someone verbally in your face, trying to distract you, and my goodness, using the vernacular?

There is a reason that the older police officers are difficult to unnerve, and that is experience with various aspects of public interaction. The recruits are owed a taste of reality to assist/inure them. If that includes graphic photos of crime/accident scenes or getting yelled at in drill, so much the better for them. If you find that you vomit at the sight of blood, perhaps being a police officer is not a wise career choice. If being yelled at and your competence is called into question and that poses a problem for your composure, perhaps you have the wrong career. Best find that out before handing them a badge.

A person in authority does not automatically become one when the badge is handed over. They have to be built with instruction, experience and practice.

Do you Like or Dislike the above comment: 2  2

Everything has to be put in context. The drill Sgt. using the four letter word directed at a recruit (of any gender!) is in a position of authority.
The recruit will become a police officer. He/She will be called the four letter word on the street. When the four letter words start coming the officer is in a position of authority and is expected to be professional. If not, thanks for coming and your gone.

The “see if you can take it” using an abusive approach is long gone in today’s society. Today’s recruits know the difference.
I agree 100% with drill section at Depot. I would have to question the abilities of the drill staff member who swears at recruits to get the desired results.

If you are walking down the street and someone slaps you in the face; would you then slap yourself in the face? (Seems like a ridicules question.) You would never take part in your own abuse. Why would you expect a recruit to take part in their own abuse?

Abuse does not have to be used to get a desired result. You are right when you infer that society is changing. The RCMP has to adapt to the change. They cannot try and hold on to the same processes used in past.

Calvin Lawrence
CGL Consulting

Do you Like or Dislike the above comment: 0  6

One example: The near tyrannical operation of the drill instruction was dismissed as ritualistic, barbaric and unsuitable in “modern ” training sessions by the academics. (Not so anymore as the academics have been moved and the drill aspects returned). Thus its relegation to the far reaches of training by the “greater” educational minds, and the PC crowd. However, contemplate that if you could survive the bombardment of epithets and bombast handed to you by the staff, the constant ridicule and denigration by various members of the public would pale in comparison, and hardly raise a ripple on your demeanor. Allowing you to complete your duties without any distraction. Try the 4 letter word on a female recruit in today’s drill, and see your hide pierced forthwith in a harassment complaint. But ask yourself, what is her reaction when called this on the street? And if the public does not think it happens, they are extremely naive. If you could handle what was dished out in training at one time, you could handle pretty well anything on the street.. Nobody could spew like a good drill corporal, they were legendary. The fact that a lot of the “complaints” against officers are a result of temper and demeanor support this.

Alas, the PC in training does not translate to the real world. Just like not making the “grade”, “we will push you over”. Wrong line of thinking. set the bar high, and don’t waver on it. You make it, fine, you don’t, thanks for coming out..

In the days of no overtime, little pay, relentless transfers, no attention to family issues, etc., the reason that changed is because of the make up of the Force. The fact that you could get sent to a Fort, St., or a Creek somewhere never heard of for an “attitude adjustment” meant a lot more deterrence wise than the meaningless public complaint system in place at present.. Due process has replaced common sense.

More people join for a job than for a “calling” or a lifetime career. But the force is not alone in that respect, society has changed and forced the RCMP to change some of it’s group thinking as well. The possibility of a union is one such step heretofore totally rejected by the officers of the RCMP.

It is not a completely desirable set of circumstances, but it is what it is, and there have been some benefits from it..

Its too bad that petty politics seem to dictate a lot of actions these days. I hope that the HRP is indeed improving so that the public does not suffer if the politicians keep fiddling.

Do you Like or Dislike the above comment: 2  3

I find myself in a kind of “no man’s land” between the Harper government and their opponents in Greenpeace as regards carbon dioxide emissions and the evident problems of putting more greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. Don’t take my word for it. Just look at the preparations being made to navigate the northwest passage using commercial shipping as the polar ice cap melts.

So I am dissatisfied with the response of Mr. Harper’s government. That said, I’m no fan of a bunch of self-righteous daredevils who suspend themselves from public buildings in Ottawa (or anywhere else for that matter) in a juvenile and risk prone attention seeking stunt.

It sounds comical to me that someone actually had a report prepared and then heaping irony on top of overreaction thinks there should be more Mounties patrolling to stop the dreaded threat of “banner hanging”.

Did it ever occur to anyone in the review team (yes, team because whenever a big bureaucracy does a study there always has to be a team, and a mandate, and a schedule, and a bunch of other stuff) to just ignore these insignificant little Greenpeace jerks?

Here’s an alternative. If it happens again in winter just ask a couple of the younger and more fit Commissionaires to go stamp a message in the snow on the lawn which reads something like “Eventually you will get cold, or bored, or hungry, or need to use the bathroom. When you do, we’ll be waiting inside where it’s warm and dry. Then you will be arrested. But for now we are ignoring you. We are going inside for a Tim’s double double and a nice bowl of hot soup. have fun. And if you lose your grip and fall, try not to land on any innocent bystanders. But feel free to kill yourselves if you like.”

In other words the object of attention seeking jerks is to provoke a reaction. The more we react the bigger their victory. So in the immortal words of my old dad, “Screw ‘em.” See how they thrive on neglect.

The other theme I want to address briefly is the angry and absurd denunciation my friend makes of the RCMP. For openers, my friend does not speak for me even while presuming to speak for everyone. The message is a bit indistinct here because we are not told if “quite clear to all of us” includes all Canadians, the population of the entire planet, or maybe it even includes sentient beings on Rigel 9.

And to quote the incomparable “Vince” who sells the Shamwow and Slapchop on late night TV, “but wait!!! There’s more!!!”. My friend concludes in speaking for us all, that “…they are not much good anywhere else…”. Well he is wrong. And it is a silly thing to say. And saying it actually hurts valid criticism and calls for reform. If you want to effect change then your platform succeeds much better if you operate as an honest and ethical observer. If you think there are problems define them accurately and propose solutions if you have them, or invite qualified others to weigh into the debate and offer ideas. But for goodness sake stop with the silly, stark and clearly inaccurate condemnations. Are there some problems? Well I believe there are. Can they be fixed? Again the answer is yes.

Are there good officers serving with professional dedication and superior results? The answer to that one is a clear yes. A lot of them. I meet a number of them from time to time. My community would be the poorer if we didn’t have their services. And while I am from time to time critical, I would never put myself in your camp of ‘I speak for everyone when I say they aren’t much good anywhere’. My friend didn’t advance the discussion down the field. Instead the discussion just got kicked out of bounds.

Do you Like or Dislike the above comment: 3  4

Good ideal pull them all back to Ottawa, they are not much good anywhere else these days and I think this message is getting quite clear to all of us.

Hot debate. What do you think? 5  6