(CBC News) – A top-ranking RCMP officer told an Alberta inquiry Tuesday he is satisfied that the officers who were ambushed and killed by gunman James Roszko near Mayerthorpe in 2005 were properly trained to handle the incident.
The four officers were very well trained for the circumstances, said Senior Deputy Commissioner Rod Knecht, who was the officer in charge of criminal operations for northern Alberta at the time of the shooting.
The scenario of a perpetrator returning to the scene to attack officers had never happened before, he told the fatality inquiry looking into the deaths of the four officers nearly six years ago.
Roszko gunned down RCMP constables Anthony Gordon, Leo Johnston, Brock Myrol and Peter Schiemann on March 3, 2005, before killing himself.
Deputy commissioner chokes up
The inquiry at the courthouse in Stony Plain is looking into the events leading up to Roszko’s ambush of the Mounties on his farm to learn how similar tragedies can be prevented.
Knecht, now based in Ottawa, oversaw the internal RCMP investigation of what happened that day.
At one point while talking about the investigation, Knecht became choked up and had to pause on the stand.
While completing one of the reports, investigators did not talk to members from the Mayerthorpe detachment, he said.
“It was a very difficult time for those members,” he said through tears.
Crime scenes guarded at all times
There is no national police policy on how security at a crime scene should be maintained, other than the scene remains guarded at all times, Knecht said.
The attack, however, prompted changes in RCMP procedures.
On the witness stand, Knecht reviewed the recommendations that came out of an internal RCMP report.
At the time of the killings, all armoured police vehicles were located in Ottawa, but since then, some have been moved to B.C., while Alberta expects to get the vehicles next year.
Since the shooting, every officer operating a police car must have a bulletproof vest and plainclothes officers must have immediate access to their gear.
Mayerthorpe now has body armour
The Mayerthorpe detachment now has hard body armour, he said. The gear is being distributed across all RCMP detachments, based on risk assessments.
However, the gear is not a complete solution as it is too uncomfortable and too confining to wear on patrol, he said. It’s also expensive and hard to get.
K-Division, responsible for northern Alberta, has implemented a behavioural sciences unit which performs risk assessments for crime scenes, said Knecht. The unit will also assemble files on people seen as potentially violent.
The inquiry is now over.
The judge may make recommendations to prevent similar occurrences but is prohibited, under the act, from making findings of legal responsibility.
Public hearings held under the Alberta Fatality Inquiries Act are limited to establishing the cause, manner, time, place and circumstances of death, as well as the identity of the deceased.
The new IMIM training does not reflect that assertion.
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Well johnnyG, perhaps that is why a large number of officers, at their own expense, undertake training in firearms with visiting SEAL, special forces and other like trainers from the US when they come up to Canada for seminars and practical training camps.
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DT, I think that is a good idea. Depot is run like a community college that hands out guns. You have some very good firearms and PDT instructors out in Depot, but the social worker nonsense cadets learn in the classroom seem to cross the wires and throws common sense out the window.
For example, in a FATS scenario if a instructor asks a group of cadets “If you are not comfortable approaching a car, can you unsnap your holster and put your hand on the stock of your gun?” The overwhelming answer is NO!”. Then the instructor asks “why not?- It’s not against the law?”
If anyone thinks the least bit tactical, they are dismissed as a “Tackleberry” or a warmonger and all kinds of nasty labels are applied to them. So be prepared to have your character maligned and be prepared to have all kinds of excessive force prone innuendo if you try to think like a real policeman. Too many members just don’t get it, and sadly will have to learn the hard way.
I am not saying or nor am I sure that the guy’s at Mayerthorpe were standing around in a “gaggle”, but with that said, I know plenty who would!
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Someone once said “This wouldn’t have happened to the Military Police”. I have to partially agree with this statement. The MP’s do section battle attacks and learn how to hold and observe their position.
Can someone tell me if the members set up a 360 degree arc of fire or were they standing around with their hands in their pockets having a chat when ambushed?
The RCMP now spends more time training recruits on how to be sensitive politically correct bureaucrats than to think like soldiers in a gun battle. I think it is time to spend more time on the tactical stuff and less on the classroom crap. Start hiring people again who you would want with you when it all hits the fan.
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It is a little naive to presume that you can train for every possible contingency that may arise. The best that you can hope to accomplish is a cross section of major occurrences in which a lesson fitting multi discipline events can be instilled.
With all the training that the Secret Service is given, they still cannot prevent attacks on the President. That is only one duty. With all the duties in law enforcement, can you really have it said that one person/unit has all the training necessary? Can you ever say they are ready for any eventuality? No. All you can do is provide as much as possible given the myriad of factors that come into play. Time, money manpower, availability etc.
Body armor and armored vehicles are a red herring. Where is the next Mayerthorpe going to happen? And will all the officers be ERT trained, have sufficient numbers, be wearing body armor with ceramic plate, and drive a coyote? Hardly.
Perhaps the officer in charge of the local detachment should have more training in operational strategic thinking. Certainly seems Knecht does. Too much administrative, not enough tactical or operational thinking.
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It is interesting to note that the RCMP is “studying” the introduction of a semi automatic carbines for officers. This, one could assume, is in addition to the shotguns presently available. As I understand it there is the usual bleating internally with respect to the “demonstrated need” and the costing factors. “In the event of” procurement is a hard sell with bureaucrats.
The same “under study” with portable, personal video/audio devices worn in the form of a clip or pen like device. In any large organization there is a certain inertia when it comes to acquisition of accouterments. In the case of the RCMP, they have another level of bureaucracy for acquisition and that is the Treasury Board. Any extraneous purchases not covered in a budget cycle has to be approved.
The RCMP is not alone in this issue. The Vancouver Police Department emergency response team was under manned and poorly equipped and trained until the death of one of their officers in the 80’s. Shortly thereafter new and proper equipment was quietly and quickly obtained along with further specialized training. Witness the regular arguments for equipment with the Armed Forces.
More impetus for the organization to be separated from the government, the head of the RCMP to not be a deputy minister, and a separate civilian oversight board in place.
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“After spending time with a Tactical Unit on more than one occasion I think what happened in Mayerthorp in inexcusable.”
Which D is posting this?
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“The detailed process was most likely who was around / available in a small office at the time”.
DT
they were selected because they were junior in service. There was certainly no thought given to their levels of experience or suitability for such duty and the NCOs would have seen such a duty as beneath them”.
SnT
I have experienced all of the above during my service. Add to the mix a mind numbing assignment and one or more of the ten deadly errors and the danger increases.
If the above people commenting on this site were given an opportunity to ask questions at the inquiry more answers would come than what we have now.
There should be no speculation on the above question. The inquiry should have supplied the answers.
Calvin Lawrence
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I also am sad and dismayed. But not at all surprised.
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The detailed process was most likely who was around / available in a small office at the time. I do not think you can plan for every eventuality and combination of events yet unforeseen but one established procedure should be an abundance of caution in volatile circumstances. The new unit established to assess potential violent persons is a step in the right direction, as long as the information is readily available to the working officers. It remains that it takes a tragic circumstance to bring about needed changes to procedures or equipment. The RCMP is not alone in that quarter.
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Quote:
“While completing one of the reports, investigators did not talk to members from the Mayerthorpe detachment, he said”.
Not interviewing the members was and is a big mistake. This would have answered some key questions as to the attitude of the detachment members regarding James Roszko.
Did the members feel that they had “permission” to pursue his activities after his complaint to the RCMP? What was the detailed process of who was sent to guard the site?
I don’t think that the right questions are being asked to the right people.
Calvin Lawrence
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Calvin, you are correct – people that should have been interviewed were not. People that should have been included in the inquiry were not. Questions that should have been asked were not. RCMP members in my office discuss the daily news coverage of the inquiry and we’re all in agreement that the right questions are not being asked. Sadly, we’re also in no doubt that the inquiry has always been intended to mollify and reassure the general public, including the wives and parents of the dead members, while absolving the RCMP of any responsibility. I’d bet real money that the members of Mayerthorpe Detachment were not interviewed because of fears they wouldn’t adhere to the “party line” that their supervisors are spouting.
With regard to the “process” for guarding the scene: from experience I’d bet that either these four members happened to be the ones on shift OR they were selected because they were junior in service. There was certainly no thought given to their levels of experience or suitability for such duty and the NCOs would have seen such a duty as beneath them.
We also have the ridiculous statement of Deputy Commissioner Rod Knecht that the scenario of a perpetrator returning to the scene to attack officers had never happened before. Never? I can only assume he meant never in Mayerthorpe, or possibly never in his vast policing experience (most of it sitting behind a desk). That didn’t preclude the possibility that it could happen. It was also a possibility that occurred to at least one of supervising members at the Detachment given that he discussed making the police presence at Roszko’s farm as obvious as possible. And isn’t this what members have the right to expect from those promoted into supervisory positions? The ability to think ahead, to anticipate, to plan for the worst? “It had never happened before” just doesn’t cut it.
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